Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
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16-07-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 10:20 AM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  Which "Christ" are you following? The one who was god, before he was Christ? The one who was "Christ" after he was god? The "Holy Spirit", whatever the hell it was? Or the one who actually lived?
The Christ of the Gospel. Which Gospel? Whichever one that focuses on the type of Love that would suffer injustice, torture and death, and yet forgive with complete understanding and mercy. Your play on words expresses the confusion inherent in scripture. It happens to everyone who reads scripture.

Quote:Does yours play with snakes?
Funny.
Quote:Does he support or deny the old testament?
Hard to answer. The Old Testament is a shadow of the New.
Quote:Does he have long hair and look like a white guy?
I don't know. I am sure it doesn't matter how he looks. I trust you're being facetious.
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16-07-2013, 03:55 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2013 04:08 PM by Shannow.)
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 02:36 PM)childeye Wrote:  So all of the geniuses in the world drew great calculations on thousands of chalkboards and finally after lifetimes of combined study finally concluded there is a God. So when they told the little child of faith coloring in his coloring book, he said, "oh yeah, I knew that".

That's a really nice metaphor. I like your turn of phrase. But I disagree with the message.

IF SOME of the 'geniuses' in the world could write a peer reviewed paper that proved the existence of any god...that gave all of us a deeper understanding of the universe and made our lives better, I'm pretty sure that most of this forum and in fact all of humanity would convert overnight. But they haven't, and based on the available evidence it's highly unlikely that they ever will. I guess the takeaway is that I'm happy to be wrong...your god isn't. I hope that you'll be happy to be wrong one day and are reaching out on this forum because you're a bit unsure if your brand of woo is actually helping your life. Which is cool, a lot of people (myself included) went through this process...and the first step is always denial.

(16-07-2013 02:36 PM)childeye Wrote:  Zero is not greater than One.

Huzzah! We've, you've moved off physics (of which I know very little) to lovely, lovely numbers. And yes you're mostly right. We can almost agree on this, apart from if your zero was factorial or (maybe) if we created a transfinite ordinal, but I'd need HoC to check our workings and he's about step 10 in your atheist reprogramming. We need to get back to basics and pondering the transifinite is not it. Onwards childeye, write some more wooSmile

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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16-07-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 03:01 PM)childeye Wrote:  Whichever one that focuses on the type of Love that would suffer injustice, torture and death, and yet forgive with complete understanding and mercy. Your play on words expresses the confusion inherent in scripture. It happens to everyone who reads scripture.

So you don't really know ? And your hoping there might be one, which would fill the bill.

(16-07-2013 03:01 PM)childeye Wrote:  The Old Testament is a shadow of the New.

That sentence has no meaning. The editors/compilers had specific purposes when they created/assembled their texts, and had no clue that someone would come along thousands of years later, and make preposterous claims about coincidental items that seemed to them to be parallels. If it happens to "everyone who reads scripture" , then it happens to you, and you have no business interpreting it. (You , BTW heave no education in the subject, obviously.)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-07-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 02:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-07-2013 07:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have no evidence, you have no mathematics, you have no logic to support your theology.

You have empty rhetoric.
Not so. It is quite logical that the God Whose energy formed the universe exists outside of time or Whose dimension of existence transcends our own in some manner. At any rate the physical matter that we see as our universe came from a singularity as did time. It is not necessary that the source of the energy did.

Matter and energy are one and the same. And there was no singularity.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-07-2013, 04:12 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(15-07-2013 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(15-07-2013 07:32 PM)childeye Wrote:  Hawkings proved nothing but an ability to out think one's self. His initial premise that there was no time before the creation and so there is no causality is built upon a false dichotomy. He's lost it in his temporal incapacity to contemplate what is infinite. Simply put, God's energy is not subject to time and space, time and space are subject to God's energy.

Childeye, please reconcile two of your statements...
1. "I 'm not a reader of Hawkings or any other physicist for that matter."
2. "Hawkings proved nothing but....(bla bla bla)"
1. When I say I am not a reader of Hawkings, I am speaking in degrees. I have seen some interviews, a few presentations on science channels, some newspaper articles etc... I generally do not follow any physicist per se.
2. Just because I don't follow any particular physicist doesn't mean I don't have any conception of the subject matter.

Quote:As you haven't read anything of substance about the topic at hand, how do you have the confidence to pass comments? I think you're the one who's "lost," not Hawkings.

Physics is somewhat predictable, and therefore I enjoy the theoretical exploring through depth of thought just like Hawkings or any other physics interested individual. I don't just believe what people say is true nor untrue. I must look at the foundations of their reasoning, search for missed possibilities, weigh probabilities, until I can concur. I am therefore quite confident in what I know. As such, I am confident that something didn't come out of nothing unless by nothing we mean something that is not easily visible. At any rate I do know some things about scientific stuff and am not totally ignorant in the subject.
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16-07-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 04:12 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-07-2013 10:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Childeye, please reconcile two of your statements...
1. "I 'm not a reader of Hawkings or any other physicist for that matter."
2. "Hawkings proved nothing but....(bla bla bla)"
1. When I say I am not a reader of Hawkings, I am speaking in degrees. I have seen some interviews, a few presentations on science channels, some newspaper articles etc... I generally do not follow any physicist per se.
2. Just because I don't follow any particular physicist doesn't mean I don't have any conception of the subject matter.

Quote:As you haven't read anything of substance about the topic at hand, how do you have the confidence to pass comments? I think you're the one who's "lost," not Hawkings.

Physics is somewhat predictable, and therefore I enjoy the theoretical exploring through depth of thought just like Hawkings or any other physics interested individual. I don't just believe what people say is true nor untrue. I must look at the foundations of their reasoning, search for missed possibilities, weigh probabilities, until I can concur. I am therefore quite confident in what I know. As such, I am confident that something didn't come out of nothing unless by nothing we mean something that is not easily visible. At any rate I do know some things about scientific stuff and am not totally ignorant in the subject.

It's "Hawking", no "s".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-07-2013, 05:20 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2013 05:28 PM by childeye.)
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 04:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 02:26 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not so. It is quite logical that the God Whose energy formed the universe exists outside of time or Whose dimension of existence transcends our own in some manner. At any rate the physical matter that we see as our universe came from a singularity as did time. It is not necessary that the source of the energy did.

Matter and energy are one and the same. And there was no singularity.
No reason to conflate energy with matter so as to draw no distinction. They are not the same at all. Where time began the universe began, a single beginning for our known universe. Sorry, makes perfect sense to me.
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16-07-2013, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2013 05:26 PM by childeye.)
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 05:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  It's "Hawking", no "s".
Thanks for the correction. My apologies to Mr. Hawking.
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16-07-2013, 05:54 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 05:20 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 04:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  Matter and energy are one and the same. And there was no singularity.
No reason to conflate energy with matter so as to draw no distinction. They are not the same at all. Where time began the universe began, a single beginning for our known universe. Sorry, makes perfect sense to me.

E = MC2

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16-07-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 05:54 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 05:20 PM)childeye Wrote:  No reason to conflate energy with matter so as to draw no distinction. They are not the same at all. Where time began the universe began, a single beginning for our known universe. Sorry, makes perfect sense to me.

E = MC2
I am guessing you might think this equation makes energy and matter equivalent because of the equal sign. I'm sorry if I have guessed wrong. It is in fact a mathematical formula for measuring the energy contained within the mass of an object.
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