Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
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20-07-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(19-07-2013 08:06 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  CE - think of it this way.

Water (a liquid) can also be ice (a solid) and water vapor (a gas)
It's all still H2O but in different states of matter.

It's not the exact relationship between matter and energy, but it is the most simplistic example I can give that I think you can understand.
Thank you for your response. The point you make I am not disputing if I read you right. Energy converts into other forms of matter but also into things like thermal heat for example. Energy is not the same thing as matter which is why they have separate terms for what they are and separate definitions. That is quite clear to me.
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20-07-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(20-07-2013 04:42 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(19-07-2013 08:06 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  CE - think of it this way.

Water (a liquid) can also be ice (a solid) and water vapor (a gas)
It's all still H2O but in different states of matter.

It's not the exact relationship between matter and energy, but it is the most simplistic example I can give that I think you can understand.
Thank you for your response. The point you make I am not disputing if I read you right. Energy converts into other forms of matter but also into things like thermal heat for example. Energy is not the same thing as matter which is why they have separate terms for what they are and separate definitions. That is quite clear to me.

Clear but wrong.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-07-2013, 06:39 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
CE - look up matter and anti-matter collisions.

Matter = elements, compounds, just about everything around you, including you.
Energy = Electromagnetic energy - visible light and the not so visible (x-rays, gamma rays, ultra violet and a host of thousands more whose names I don't know) also kinetic energy, potential energy, thermal energy, chemical energy, electrical energy, electrochemical energy, sound energy, and nuclear energy.

Collisions of matter in a particle accelerator will give way to high energy photons like gamma rays given off from the resulting collision.
You also get a fair number of other particles and thermal energy. With a little research on the net you can discover more about this.

The relationship between matter and energy is well documented.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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21-07-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
Is there a physics section here?

Regards
DL
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21-07-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(20-07-2013 06:39 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  CE - look up matter and anti-matter collisions.

Matter = elements, compounds, just about everything around you, including you.
Energy = Electromagnetic energy - visible light and the not so visible (x-rays, gamma rays, ultra violet and a host of thousands more whose names I don't know) also kinetic energy, potential energy, thermal energy, chemical energy, electrical energy, electrochemical energy, sound energy, and nuclear energy.

Collisions of matter in a particle accelerator will give way to high energy photons like gamma rays given off from the resulting collision.
You also get a fair number of other particles and thermal energy. With a little research on the net you can discover more about this.

The relationship between matter and energy is well documented.
As I've already said, I am not even disputing what you have written above. I am disputing that matter and energy are the same thing in that one came before the other in big bang theory.
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21-07-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(20-07-2013 06:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-07-2013 04:42 PM)childeye Wrote:  Thank you for your response. The point you make I am not disputing if I read you right. Energy converts into other forms of matter but also into things like thermal heat for example. Energy is not the same thing as matter which is why they have separate terms for what they are and separate definitions. That is quite clear to me.

Clear but wrong.
No, I'm not wrong and am in fact only agreeing with what you said, At the moment of the Big Bang, and for some time after, there was pure energy. The universe was too energetic for matter to exist.
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21-07-2013, 04:13 PM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2013 04:21 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(20-07-2013 04:42 PM)childeye Wrote:  Energy is not the same thing as matter ...

Da fuq? What part of E = MC^2 you no understand? ... You do realize C^2 is a constant right? Kinda like saying GirlyMan=10xChildEye.

BE THE GOD BITCHES! - Bob
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21-07-2013, 11:22 PM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(16-07-2013 10:25 PM)childeye Wrote:  Peace sir. I do not wish to show disrespect for your knowledge of the subject. Nor do I wish to pretend I know more about it than you. I admit I am not schooled and am ignorant in the terminology. I can appreciate why mass and energy are considered equivalent. I can appreciate that an atom has energy that is released in some other form when split. This does not make them the same in my view. But if I am correct in understanding what mass is, mass increases as an object increases speed. I see this when I swing a hammer. In my view this can only happen because of motion since my hammer does not increase in substance. I see Light is energy because there are photons in motion. I see no light or energy when the photons stop moving. I therefore must conclude that energy is not the same as matter. It is therefore conceivable to me that energy is a description of something other than matter without denying matter is held together by or mass is formed by energy. That is what I honestly see.

...And we begin to see the problem.

You see, questions of science aren't incumbent upon what you "see" or what your "view" may be. The concepts being discussed here are observable, verifiable, and not open to subjectivity. Relativity works, it's demonstrable, it holds true and it does so irrespective of our "view" or what we claim to "see."

I amazed by the level of word play and parsing of terms demonstrated here. There are claims on one hand of a lack of education on the subject and at the same time, wrongheaded arguments in the light of demonstrable and repeated facts. These kinds of dishonest and underhanded tactics may have a place in apologetics. They, however, do not belong in any open inquiry or in science. Perhaps "childeye" should strive for a more adult vision.

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22-07-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(21-07-2013 03:31 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is there a physics section here?

Regards
DL

There's a science section... but, no snakes allowed. Especially not French snakes. Big Grin

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22-07-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: Is needing or wanting to worshiping a God a human defect or benefit?
(21-07-2013 04:01 PM)childeye Wrote:  No, I'm not wrong and am in fact only agreeing with what you said, At the moment of the Big Bang, and for some time after, there was pure energy. The universe was too energetic for matter to exist.

The fact that you profess an ignorance and lack of education on one hand, and yet implacably cling to falsehoods despite correction on the other does not bode well for your future intellectual growth.

Nonetheless.

Energy and mass are terms we use to characterize interaction (or, more precisely, the capacity for interaction). They are inextricably linked. I provided a link to an article which confirms this experimentally (and indeed, cites many other previous such experiments). One cannot exist independently of the other. In a closed system they are necessarily both conserved - and the universe as a whole is most assuredly a closed system. Therefore it is precisely as massive and as energetic as it's always been.

As to their common origin, we surmise a big bang. As to its origin, I don't know. My willingness to admit that I don't know is only slightly tempered by the knowledge that it will be used to shoehorn in a grasping equivocation - "I don't know, therefore God".

(21-07-2013 11:22 PM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  ...And we begin to see the problem.

Big Grin

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