Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
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28-08-2013, 07:02 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 06:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 06:47 AM)I and I Wrote:  The very tool that we use to make scientific discoveries brain/mind is not in the evolutionary equation due to our lack of understanding in this area = big hole.

Sure, given the lack of fossilization of neurological evidence, but I wouldn't characterize it as 'big'.

Out of curiosity, do chimpanzees have minds? Did australopithecus? Did homo erectus? Neanderthals?

As far as we know only humans have minds, neanderthals did too according artifacts found from that era.
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28-08-2013, 07:25 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 07:02 AM)I and I Wrote:  As far as we know only humans have minds, neanderthals did too according artifacts found from that era.

So, that would be not just tool use, but behavioural evidence such as art, burial, trade, architecture?

The most logical supposition is then that 'mind' (as-yet-undefined) arose in our common ancestor - which would be heidelbergensis; fire and language go back at least that far.

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28-08-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 07:25 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 07:02 AM)I and I Wrote:  As far as we know only humans have minds, neanderthals did too according artifacts found from that era.

So, that would be not just tool use, but behavioural evidence such as art, burial, trade, architecture?

The most logical supposition is then that 'mind' (as-yet-undefined) arose in our common ancestor - which would be heidelbergensis; fire and language go back at least that far.

Here is a pbs doc on neanderthals. http://video.pbs.org/video/2323758207/

The mind is not only a subject of evolution but a part of the influence in evolution. The way our ancestors think and believe has an affect on how fast or in which direction we evolve. The mind is the result of human evolution and at the same time a catalyst for human evolution. It's an area that science hasn't had too many explanations for and neither has it deemed it a worthy subject in the field of human evolution.

I think the fact that humans are born before our brains are developed fully (unlike most living things) is what caused the mind/brain to develop the way it did in humans, the undeveloped born human brain has the potential to be changed,influenced, have different desires, wants, etc etc because we aren't born with a fixed mental maturity like that of a snake or a bird. Psychology and Philosophy are the areas for this study.

I wonder why or when in the evolutionary chain did our ancestors brains start to develop fully after birth since we evolved from species whose brains developed before birth.
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28-08-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 07:02 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 06:59 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Sure, given the lack of fossilization of neurological evidence, but I wouldn't characterize it as 'big'.

Out of curiosity, do chimpanzees have minds? Did australopithecus? Did homo erectus? Neanderthals?

As far as we know only humans have minds, neanderthals did too according artifacts found from that era.

No, unless you are talking only about human minds.

Several species show evidence of mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 08:20 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 07:25 AM)cjlr Wrote:  So, that would be not just tool use, but behavioural evidence such as art, burial, trade, architecture?

The most logical supposition is then that 'mind' (as-yet-undefined) arose in our common ancestor - which would be heidelbergensis; fire and language go back at least that far.

Here is a pbs doc on neanderthals. http://video.pbs.org/video/2323758207/

The mind is not only a subject of evolution but a part of the influence in evolution. The way our ancestors think and believe has an affect on how fast or in which direction we evolve. The mind is the result of human evolution and at the same time a catalyst for human evolution. It's an area that science hasn't had too many explanations for and neither has it deemed it a worthy subject in the field of human evolution.

I think the fact that humans are born before our brains are developed fully (unlike most living things) is what caused the mind/brain to develop the way it did in humans, the undeveloped born human brain has the potential to be changed,influenced, have different desires, wants, etc etc because we aren't born with a fixed mental maturity like that of a snake or a bird. Psychology and Philosophy are the areas for this study.

I wonder why or when in the evolutionary chain did our ancestors brains start to develop fully after birth since we evolved from species whose brains developed before birth.

The evolution of mind is a very active field in evolutionary biology. Why do you think it isn't?
There is a recently created field of study called Evolutionary Psychology.

Humans aren't the only species that has a childhood that encompasses post-natal brain development. Many species go through a mental maturation and learning phase.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 08:20 AM)I and I Wrote:  Here is a pbs doc on neanderthals. http://video.pbs.org/video/2323758207/

The mind is not only a subject of evolution but a part of the influence in evolution. The way our ancestors think and believe has an affect on how fast or in which direction we evolve. The mind is the result of human evolution and at the same time a catalyst for human evolution. It's an area that science hasn't had too many explanations for and neither has it deemed it a worthy subject in the field of human evolution.

I think the fact that humans are born before our brains are developed fully (unlike most living things) is what caused the mind/brain to develop the way it did in humans, the undeveloped born human brain has the potential to be changed,influenced, have different desires, wants, etc etc because we aren't born with a fixed mental maturity like that of a snake or a bird. Psychology and Philosophy are the areas for this study.

I wonder why or when in the evolutionary chain did our ancestors brains start to develop fully after birth since we evolved from species whose brains developed before birth.

The evolution of mind is a very active field in evolutionary biology. Why do you think it isn't?
There is a recently created field of study called Evolutionary Psychology.

Humans aren't the only species that has a childhood that encompasses post-natal brain development. Many species go through a mental maturation and learning phase.

Many species? How many species are born with the physical brain (not just the functions of the brain) not fully developed?

What makes you think anyone here said that nobody is studying evolutionary psychology?
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28-08-2013, 04:34 PM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 04:21 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  The evolution of mind is a very active field in evolutionary biology. Why do you think it isn't?
There is a recently created field of study called Evolutionary Psychology.

Humans aren't the only species that has a childhood that encompasses post-natal brain development. Many species go through a mental maturation and learning phase.

Many species? How many species are born with the physical brain (not just the functions of the brain) not fully developed?

Oh, for fuck's sake. Just Google "post-natal brain development".

Quote:What makes you think anyone here said that nobody is studying evolutionary psychology?

You said: "The mind is the result of human evolution and at the same time a catalyst for human evolution. It's an area that science hasn't had too many explanations for and neither has it deemed it a worthy subject in the field of human evolution."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2013, 05:12 PM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 04:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 04:21 PM)I and I Wrote:  Many species? How many species are born with the physical brain (not just the functions of the brain) not fully developed?

Oh, for fuck's sake. Just Google "post-natal brain development".

Quote:What makes you think anyone here said that nobody is studying evolutionary psychology?

You said: "The mind is the result of human evolution and at the same time a catalyst for human evolution. It's an area that science hasn't had too many explanations for and neither has it deemed it a worthy subject in the field of human evolution."

No stupid, I said that humans are born with the physical brain itself not fully formed, you are referring to brain function.
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28-08-2013, 07:29 PM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 04:21 PM)I and I Wrote:  Many species? How many species are born with the physical brain (not just the functions of the brain) not fully developed?

All of them.

But no, that's glib. All mammals, though, absolutely so.

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29-08-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Is neo-darwinism a scientific theory?
(28-08-2013 07:29 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 04:21 PM)I and I Wrote:  Many species? How many species are born with the physical brain (not just the functions of the brain) not fully developed?

All of them.

But no, that's glib. All mammals, though, absolutely so.

As I was saying...
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obse...ss-babies/
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