Is religion a delusion?
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05-11-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 06:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 11:41 AM)Gaest Wrote:  I have often heard the concept "delusion" being used to describe religion or religious ideas and beliefs, but what is the reasoning behind describing religion and religious people as delusional, and are there any relevant researchers since Freud and his contemporaries who advocate this?

Cheers

It is belief without evidence, often accompanied by hallucination.

What would you call it? Consider
Hallucination? Stretching a little are we? Who claimed hallucinations are a part of faith?

Obviously the earth is over 6000 years old. Perhaps the flood wasn't global. Adherence to strict creationism is flawed as evolution is proven to some extent. So if we subtract those three things from ones Faith in God then what constitutes their delusion.

Not speaking about me. This is hypothetical.
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05-11-2015, 08:53 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Adherence to strict creationism is flawed as evolution is proven to some extent.

You didn’t read the book I suggested did you?

Evolution is a fact, completely proven, tested & confirmed by every discipline in science. That you don’t accept this doesn’t make it any less so.

Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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05-11-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Adherence to strict creationism is flawed as evolution is proven to some extent.

You didn’t read the book I suggested did you?

Evolution is a fact, completely proven, tested & confirmed by every discipline in science. That you don’t accept this doesn’t make it any less so.

Drinking Beverage
What are you talking about? How many times and different ways can I state that evolution is factual, although highly manipulated by man at this point in time?
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05-11-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 04:12 PM)Banjo Wrote:  That people are trapped into religion while they are young and their minds not fully developed, would seem to me that they were conned at a vulnerable point in their lives. I don't know if it is fair to call these poor people delusional. Cheated may be a better description of the individual.
What would they be being cheated out of exactly?

A delusion robs you of rational thought. It plagues your mind and poisons your thought processes. It can keep you in fear or blindly lead you into danger. It can motivate a good person to commit atrocities.

In other words, it can cheat you out of a happy life and rob years from you.

A man came to my door boasting how he had been studying the bible since 1956. He could have put that effort into cancer research or maybe become a doctor or any number of things that would have made not only his life better, but better for others.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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05-11-2015, 09:01 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:43 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 04:12 PM)Banjo Wrote:  That people are trapped into religion while they are young and their minds not fully developed, would seem to me that they were conned at a vulnerable point in their lives. I don't know if it is fair to call these poor people delusional. Cheated may be a better description of the individual.
What would they be being cheated out of exactly?

Allow me Banjo:
A truthful education
A life without mysticism and the supernatural invented by Bronze and Iron Age man
A sense of wonder and appreciation for the natural world (instead of being taught this is just some roadside stand on the way to something better)
Critical thinking processes

Just a few of the top of my head.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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05-11-2015, 09:02 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You didn’t read the book I suggested did you?

Evolution is a fact, completely proven, tested & confirmed by every discipline in science. That you don’t accept this doesn’t make it any less so.

Drinking Beverage
What are you talking about? How many times and different ways can I state that evolution is factual, although highly manipulated by man at this point in time?

Quote, “proven to some extent” and now “manipulated”.

Just no.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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05-11-2015, 09:11 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 09:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 08:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What are you talking about? How many times and different ways can I state that evolution is factual, although highly manipulated by man at this point in time?

Quote, “proven to some extent” and now “manipulated”.

Just no.
If man acted differently many species would be in a wholly better disposition, so yeah.
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05-11-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
Things evolve. Humans are larger now than they were 100 years ago. Oh wait that's from breeding differences. Never mind. Man is obviously most fit though. Oh wait we continually tormenvand take advantage of other living things with utter disregard. Shit! Wait, I got it; birds evelved from reptiles. But both are still on earth cuz survival of the fittests... no, that can't be right.

I really have generally believed in evolution and still do. But some things just aren't true. Did all life come from single celled organisms? Maybe. Really don't know of too much proof for that though. I do like the evolutionary chain of man. Even have some input on the gap or leap there of. Really though, I do believe in some form of evolution. Does that mean that I believe some of the wild shit that evolutionist believe? Nah.
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05-11-2015, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 11:00 PM by Chas.)
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 09:20 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Things evolve. Humans are larger now than they were 100 years ago. Oh wait that's from breeding differences. Never mind.

No, it isn't. It is the result of better diet and medical care.

Quote:Man is obviously most fit though. Oh wait we continually tormenvand take advantage of other living things with utter disregard. Shit! Wait, I got it; birds evelved from reptiles. But both are still on earth cuz survival of the fittests... no, that can't be right.

I don't think you understand what survival of the fittest means.
It means the species best adapted to fit the environment succeeds.

Quote:I really have generally believed in evolution and still do. But some things just aren't true. Did all life come from single celled organisms? Maybe.

Undoubtedly it did. Do you think that multi-cellular organisms just sprang up?

Quote:Really don't know of too much proof for that though.

Ancient fossils of single-celled organisms millions of years before any fossils of multi-celled organisms.

Quote:I do like the evolutionary chain of man. Even have some input on the gap or leap there of.

What gap or leap are you referring to? What is your input?

Quote:Really though, I do believe in some form of evolution. Does that mean that I believe some of the wild shit that evolutionist believe? Nah.

That "wild shit" has mountains of evidence to back it up. Drinking Beverage

Pro tip: Your incredulity is not an argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-11-2015, 05:15 AM
Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 06:44 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(05-11-2015 03:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Probably because you're the least mysterious man in the world. I encounter people like you all the time, and depression seems to be the common denominator.

I was going to let this slide Tom but I can’t.

I grew in a home where my mother suffered from full blown manic depression and for the record she is one of the most religious people I know, she was then and still is now.

I hated coming home from high school because I never knew what I would find on the other side of the door. More than once I had to break down doors and call 911 to resucitate my mother from overdoses of sleeping pills or to sew up self inflicted wounds.

So I would appreciate it if you were to tread carefully when you generalize about a very serious condition and any attempt at either diagnosing or trivializing it over the internet. I won’t even go into your qualifications regarding this.

I can relate man, but yea it was dick move on my part.

TBD can suck it, but to you, and girlyman and anyone else I apologize, for going that low.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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