Is religion a delusion?
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07-11-2015, 08:45 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 05:02 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. All organisms are fit for their environment. Man may be able to adapt to more environments than other organisms, but many organisms are adapted to environments that are impossible for man to adapt to.


Power? Sure, we are capable of destroying habitat that other organisms depend on.


No other species have regard for the survival of other species or habitats, except in some very narrow contexts.
That narrow context happens to be flawless without the intervention of man.

I don't think you understand what I meant. Consider
No other species gives a shit about its effect on the environment or other species. There are some minor exceptions, but even those are entirely selfish.

Animals can hunt their prey to extinction, insuring their own demise.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2015, 11:17 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 08:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:02 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That narrow context happens to be flawless without the intervention of man.

I don't think you understand what I meant. Consider
No other species gives a shit about its effect on the environment or other species. There are some minor exceptions, but even those are entirely selfish.

Animals can hunt their prey to extinction, insuring their own demise.
Perhaps, in a few cases other than humans, but nowhere near to the extent. This could be seen as what you call survival of the fittest, but I don't think that would happen too much without the changes in environment or habitat of those species that man has caused in one way or another.
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07-11-2015, 11:30 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 11:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Perhaps, in a few cases other than humans, but nowhere near to the extent. This could be seen as what you call survival of the fittest, but I don't think that would happen too much without the changes in environment or habitat of those species that man has caused in one way or another.

*Raises hand*

But it does happen. All the time.

Not only do we have the evidence of introduced species completely destroying their own 'new' biome simply through over breeding/eating etc but (And some one who's studied such) can quite probably point out where this has happened and been preserved in the geological records.

Mouse plagues in rural Australia. Insect plagues of one sort or another through Africa.

Heck... even native animals in Australia oft times eat their way out of their biome! Koalas are noted(Notorious?) for happily munching through their ONLY diet source of eucalyptus leaves, denuding their trees and not having any suitable trees within traveling distance. Hence literally eating themselves out of house and home. These are critters NOT fenced in or other wise controlled.

I vaguely remembered reading something about ancient Greece and how some of their introduced farming practices effectively destroyed their own soil quality etc.

So... even reasonably educated/intelligent humans do this exact, same thing.

I'm pretty sure others can put forward lots of similar cases/information.

'Nature' does find a balance within itself.. often times literally at the extinction of one creature/plant what have you.
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07-11-2015, 11:51 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
For all that the advent of humanity is producing one of the most thorough mass-extinctions in the planet's history, it is still far from THE most thorough.
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08-11-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 05:45 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(06-11-2015 12:15 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Am I on trial here?

Yes.

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08-11-2015, 10:22 AM
Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 11:51 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  For all that the advent of humanity is producing one of the most thorough mass-extinctions in the planet's history, it is still far from THE most thorough.

You should thank your lucky stars for those Cyanobacteria (and probably the Snowball Earth events that churned out a lot of nutrients helping produce one of the oxygenation pulses).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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08-11-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(08-11-2015 09:53 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:45 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes.

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Chrono Trigger! I loved that game. Hug
Definitely one of squares best pieces in my opinion.
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08-11-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(05-11-2015 08:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is belief without evidence, often accompanied by hallucination.

What would you call it? Consider
Hallucination? Stretching a little are we? Who claimed hallucinations are a part of faith?

Did not Paul?

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08-11-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 11:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Perhaps, in a few cases other than humans, but nowhere near to the extent. This could be seen as what you call survival of the fittest, but I don't think that would happen too much without the changes in environment or habitat of those species that man has caused in one way or another.
NZ used to have no mammals (except for one bat), no marsupials nor placental mammals.
We had birds, which due to evolution became flightless because the cost of flight was no longer advantages as there were no land based predators.

Then humans came and with them we had the introduction of other mammals e.g. rats, mice, cats, dogs, stoats, ferrets, possums...

Humans hunted the Moa to extinction, the other mammals killed of many of the birds and other native wildlife.

Those dumb Brits also brought along Gorse because they thought it made a great hedge, we also have many other noxious weeds that were introduced.

But over the ages in Earth's history climate change occurs, as well as continental shift, volcanoes, errosion etc plus species migrate to different locations. Environments are always changing and hence what was the fittest of yesteryear isn't necessarily the fittest of today. So attributes of various animals tend to shift towards something more suited to the new environment, they keep shifting as the environment keeps changing and after thousand or millions of generations they have a DNA structure which would be reproductively incompatible with that which their great, great, great, great ancestors possessed. Sometimes those diversed species meet up again e.g. Homo Sapien Vs Neanderthal and one inevitably makes the other extinct as they compete for the same adaptive space.
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09-11-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(07-11-2015 11:17 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 08:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't think you understand what I meant. Consider
No other species gives a shit about its effect on the environment or other species. There are some minor exceptions, but even those are entirely selfish.

Animals can hunt their prey to extinction, insuring their own demise.
Perhaps, in a few cases other than humans, but nowhere near to the extent. This could be seen as what you call survival of the fittest,

Insuring their own demise is not survival of the fittest. Dodgy

Quote:but I don't think that would happen too much without the changes in environment or habitat of those species that man has caused in one way or another.

Man is not the only factor in habitat change.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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