Is religion a delusion?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-11-2015, 10:14 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
Perhaps the delusion, from this point are "Enforced delusions" such as Islam. While I see Xianity as dying a slow death the way past religions have died out, Islam is on the rise. Which I see as a bad thing. Islam has a tendency to destroy the history before Islam existed.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-11-2015, 10:54 PM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 08:52 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 12:25 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Similar to how cults and religion only differ in popularity. Delusion tends to be defined by popular opinion. If most of society does not believe in the invisible pink unicorn, the person who does is considered delusional. If most of society does believe in the invisible god character, the person who does isn't (usually) considered delusional.

As time goes on and the world gets more secular, I think religion will be judged as delusional more often.

what is generally accepted as reality part puts me off, based on that, we're deluded.
It's generally accepted that God exists, we believe he doesn't our don't believe he does, so we contradict that, so we're the deluded ones.
Yeah I was going to include that in my post but decided not to. But you are right, from their perspective we may be deluded since we are outside the norm and their definition of evidence is different from ours. Ah well.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Adrianime's post
04-11-2015, 01:38 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 11:41 AM)Gaest Wrote:  what is the reasoning behind describing religion and religious people as delusional
It is delusional to have an imaginary friend
Delusional to think that the holy spirit is talking to you
Delusional to believe in magic
Delusional to believe in zombies
Delusional to believe that god has a plan for you
Delusional to think that sex or sexual desires are bad
Delusional to think that you should have faith in something without any evidence
Delusional to think that you will be punished for not having faith
Delusional to think that you will rise from the dead to live again
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Stevil's post
04-11-2015, 02:29 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 07:34 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm just pointing that using the term delusional, in a way that's doesn't correspond to some abnormal condition of the mind is fairly meaningless.

I dunno. I gave people the benefit of the doubt, but I never believed that rubbish. All I can imagine is that the indoctrination was so intense it was hard to escape! Or, it is just mass delusion.

Indoctrination could be intense but what seals the deal is not sparking curiosity in childrens. If you're not curious then you will not seek answers other than those provided by parents and/or church.

Without being accustomed to question one will be content in comfort of his delusion.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
04-11-2015, 07:09 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 07:40 PM)Gaest Wrote:  "Religion therefore contains a host of properties that actually militate against pathological delusion: (1) its general notions and practices are not obviously contradicted by evidence, (2) it requires very little mental effort to sustain most religious notions, and (3) it encourages community integration which promotes healthy psychological functioning."

Except they are. Drinking Beverage

The evidence of the way that reality operates and the utter lack of evidence for anything other than the natural world contradicts all theologies.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
04-11-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 08:02 PM)Gaest Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 06:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is belief without evidence, often accompanied by hallucination.

What would you call it? Consider

The human condition maybe? Consider

The condition of humanity in its infancy. But it's time to grow up and face reality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2015, 07:24 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 09:59 PM)julep Wrote:  I don't think religion is a delusion. It's a social mechanism that binds people into a tribe, therefore enhancing survival, and a (wrong, but to many plausible) way to explain the world, reducing the amount of time a believer has to spend trying to figure out things for herself.

However, there are other, better ways to make a tribe and to explain the world, so I hope religion will be replaced by those.

The social practice of religion is one thing, religious belief is quite another.
It is the belief system that is delusional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2015, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 06:28 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Is religion a delusion?
Good question.

(Sorry for the length of the post but I want to flesh it out for my own reasons.)

I think that a better explanation and descriptor for religious beliefs might be what S.T. Colridge called “Suspension of Disbelief” and what Tolkien later called “second belief”.

Coleridge “suggested that if a writer could infuse a 'human interest and a semblance of truth' into a fantastic tale, the reader would suspend judgement concerning the implausibility of the narrative. Suspension of disbelief often applies to fictional works of the action, comedy, fantasy, and horror genres.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

I like how T. Botos says, “Suspension of disbelief is often an essential element for a magic act or a circus sideshow act. For example, an audience is not expected to actually believe that a woman is cut in half or transforms into a gorilla in order to enjoy the performance.” Botos, Tim (21 August 2008). “‘Gorilla Girl’ sideshow act hangs on despite changing times”

Same could be said for things like transubstantiation when the faithful believe the host literally transforms into the body of Christ. It isn’t so much a delusion as a suspension of disbelief. This is but one example of many such as rising from the dead, walking on water, faith healing, speaking in tongues etc.

Some have already mentioned that for most of us we were indoctrinated into the belief. This is interesting in light of Norman Holland’s argument where he says, “...that’s why humans have such trouble recognizing lies. We first believe, then have to make a conscious effort to disbelieve. Only when we stop perceiving to think about what we have seen or heard, only then do we assess its truth-value.” As children we can’t help but believe our parents and grandparents that the story is true. I have long ago stopped railing against them and come to the realization they are victims just as I was of the same brain-washing.

I fall under the category of having been one to assess its truth-value and breaking the grip religion had on me (a very difficult and life altering process). This is why religions fight so hard to keep the faithful from reaching this stage, the assessing and questioning, for fear of “breaking the spell” and losing the congregant. Again Holland, “We don’t judge the truth of what we’re perceiving, even though, if we stop being transported and think about it, we know quite well it’s a fiction.” Holland, Norman (2008). "Spiderman? Sure! The Neuroscience of Disbelief".

Later Tolkien suggested that there is a better expalnation he termed “secondary belief”, that he describes as follows, "in order for the narrative to work, the reader must believe that what he reads is true within the secondary reality of the fictional world. By focusing on creating an internally consistent fictional world, the author makes secondary belief possible.”

This is exactly what religions do, create fictional worlds that while they remain internally consistent they don’t conform to reality. I think it is a type of compartmentalization, a neat trick religions use to exploit human weaknesses.

The question of are the religious delusional is probably better answered by saying that while by definition they are, what they are truly exhibiting is suspension of disbelief, the inability to recognize a lie and a lack of skeptical questioning.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Full Circle's post
04-11-2015, 08:30 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 07:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  The social practice of religion is one thing, religious belief is quite another.
It is the belief system that is delusional.

Is there only a single belief system in the entire history of humanity, which would fall under the category of non-delusional?

If we were to take a look at human history, would we say the predominant beliefs systems of historical societies and people, have been delusional?

And it's only the belief systems held by atheists which can be "non-delusional"? Would a non-delusional belief system require you to be an atheist?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2015, 08:35 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 08:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 07:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  The social practice of religion is one thing, religious belief is quite another.
It is the belief system that is delusional.

Is there only a single belief system in the entire history of humanity, which would fall under the category of non-delusional?

If we were to take a look at human history, would we say the predominant beliefs systems of historical societies and people, have been delusional?

And it's only the belief systems held by atheists which can be "non-delusional"? Would a non-delusional belief system require you to be an atheist?

There is only one objective reality and religion is inconsistent with it and is therefore a delusion.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: