Is religion a delusion?
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04-11-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 08:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  There is only one objective reality and religion is inconsistent with it and is therefore a delusion.

Is there only a single belief system, epistemological position, that's aligned with this objective reality, that renders all other epistemological positions, and belief systems as delusional?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-11-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 08:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 08:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  There is only one objective reality and religion is inconsistent with it and is therefore a delusion.

Is there only a single belief system, epistemological position, that's aligned with this objective reality, that renders all other epistemological positions, and belief systems as delusional?

Objective reality isn't a belief system Facepalm

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04-11-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
Religion as "mythical embodiment" (non-literal) of ideals and ideas, is not delusional, in my opinion. The problem arises when fools like Q, start taking the mythical as meant literally. Too bad American Fundamentalism has had such a negative impact on the world of religion. (See Rudolf Bultmann's "Jesus Christ and Mythology")

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-11-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 08:46 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 08:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is there only a single belief system, epistemological position, that's aligned with this objective reality, that renders all other epistemological positions, and belief systems as delusional?

Objective reality isn't a belief system Facepalm

Yet, we're talking about beliefs. According to you, beliefs that are not accurate representations of this objective reality are delusional, while beliefs that are accurate are not (though this leaves out the questions of when a belief is merely mistaken, as opposed to being delusional.)

There's an objective reality out there, in which each of us has to reduce to mental representations to make sense of. Belief systems, our epistemological framework, play a significant role in forming these abstract representations.

The question of delusions, of beliefs systems, all pertain to forming these individual and collective mental representations.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-11-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 08:46 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Objective reality isn't a belief system Facepalm

Yet, we're talking about beliefs. According to you, beliefs that are not accurate representations of this objective reality are delusional, while beliefs that are accurate are not (though this leaves out the questions of when a belief is merely mistaken, as opposed to being delusional.)

There's an objective reality out there, in which each of us has to reduce to mental representations to make sense of. Belief systems, our epistemological framework, play a significant role in forming these abstract representations.

The question of delusions, of beliefs systems, all pertain to forming these individual and collective mental representations.

We are talking about religion being a delusion because it is a belief that is inconsistent with objective observations about reality.

How do you not get this?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-11-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 07:24 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-11-2015 09:59 PM)julep Wrote:  I don't think religion is a delusion. It's a social mechanism that binds people into a tribe, therefore enhancing survival, and a (wrong, but to many plausible) way to explain the world, reducing the amount of time a believer has to spend trying to figure out things for herself.

However, there are other, better ways to make a tribe and to explain the world, so I hope religion will be replaced by those.

The social practice of religion is one thing, religious belief is quite another.
It is the belief system that is delusional.

Well, yes, I agree.

I don't think religious belief systems are unique in being based on incorrect (or irrational, or subrational) assumptions; it seems to me that that's the rule more than the exception. A big problem with religious belief systems is an inability to change their underpinnings in the light of new information, and certainly other belief systems can accommodate knowledge advances more readily.
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04-11-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 09:15 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  We are talking about religion being a delusion because it is a belief that is inconsistent with objective observations about reality.

How do you not get this?

And I'm looking to see you expand on that claim.

Do you hold that all beliefs religious or otherwise that are inconsistent with objective observations about reality, as delusional?

Or can some be mistaken, but not delusional? If so what separates delusional beliefs about reality, from mistaken beliefs about reality.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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04-11-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(03-11-2015 11:41 AM)Gaest Wrote:  I have often heard the concept "delusion" being used to describe religion or religious ideas and beliefs, but what is the reasoning behind describing religion and religious people as delusional, and are there any relevant researchers since Freud and his contemporaries who advocate this?

Cheers

Simple:

Faith: Belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: Belief in something even in the face of superior evidence to the contrary. A fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.

Religion: Requires faith and delusion.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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04-11-2015, 10:00 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 09:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Religion as "mythical embodiment" (non-literal) of ideals and ideas, is not delusional, in my opinion. The problem arises when fools like Q, start taking the mythical as meant literally. Too bad American Fundamentalism has had such a negative impact on the world of religion. (See Rudolf Bultmann's "Jesus Christ and Mythology")

Those who, like Q, argue for its literal truth and can ignore or rationalize its inconsistencies and impossibilities are delusional. Drinking Beverage

They believe without evidence in the face of contrary evidence. It is the sign of a malfunctioning mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-11-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: Is religion a delusion?
(04-11-2015 09:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-11-2015 09:15 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  We are talking about religion being a delusion because it is a belief that is inconsistent with objective observations about reality.

How do you not get this?

And I'm looking to see you expand on that claim.

Do you hold that all beliefs religious or otherwise that are inconsistent with objective observations about reality, as delusional?

Or can some be mistaken, but not delusional? If so what separates delusional beliefs about reality, from mistaken beliefs about reality.

WTF are you talking about? Expand on the claim that objective reality exists? Are you fucking stupid?

Religious beliefs propose supernature, the supernatural, and the existence of nonexistent sentient beings outside of space/time that use magic.

Mistaken isn't the same as delusional. Mistaken is a correctable position. Delusional is not. Religious people aren't merely mistaken, they are delusional.

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