Is science being hijacked?
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02-12-2012, 07:39 AM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Yeah, well... you're a poopyhead. So there! Tongue

...that's all I got. Undecided

Takes too much effort to pretend to be offended. I don't know why everybody doesn't love my Gwynnies with the same level of bewilderment at why I do. But love don't make no sense. What does make sense, is playing Halo and getting all lit up - so I go do that - recharge my attitude batteries. Thumbsup

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02-12-2012, 08:15 AM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Hey, Tia.

Quote:I guess that humans in general don't like to question things in their
every day like. Therefore an absolute truth is rather convenient. That's
why religion was/is so effective.



Meanwhile, science has occupied that status in society. Unfortunately,
it is very dificult to explain that science is a continuous 'work in
progress' and that there are no absolute truths. And this is a powerful
argument to the general public: 'they can't be sure of anyting, so why
believe in them'. To face this threat, science and scientists can either
try to increase the public awereness of what science is really about,
or impose a scientific authority just like an absolute truth.



As for me, I really think that the answer is to put a great effort on the science communication.

This kinda fails in a few placed IMHO.

Religion does not offer absolute truth in and of itself. Extreme versions of religion do, but every religion has its moderates. Some religious authority stems from the Godhead, but some religions aren't Theistic, so there you have it. It's important to avoid absolute statements when they are not supported by fact because you simply become an agent of that ideology when you do.

Science is a work in progress, but it is not just often understood as a font of inviolable truth, but it is often presented as a font of inviolable truth. The propaganda brochure sings a great tune; any time there is new evidence we all rejoice and recalibrate what we know; unfortunately, the notion that that is universally true is preposterous. Nepotism, bias, favoritism, inertia, politics, all manner of social force can prevent the acceptance of demonstrated fact within the scientific community. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf once said something to the effect of, if we're comparing the best of ourselves to the worst of the other, what are we actually accomplishing? I find that it's important to not blow the trumpets like our shit don't stink when we just dropped a deuce in the shitter.

As far as the, "They can't be sure of anything," argument, I believe it was the master poets Run DMC who once quipped, "Ooooooooo, whatchya gonna do?" I agree, the knee jerk reaction is to present science as inviolable authority, which is exactly what we want to avoid, but unfortunately, people do that. This war between Evangelicals and Atheists, creationists and evolutionists, has produced extremists on both sides. We need to work against that. I say shout science's limitations from the mountain top. Embrace them because they're true. Be honest because we have nothing to hide. Despite science's limitations, it does a DAMN GOOD JOB!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-12-2012, 08:39 AM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Fucking Ghost you fucking apologist. Big Grin

As to the OP, not so much. One can argue that the public perception of science is at risk in this fucked-up place, (USA) but the method of science self-regulates.

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02-12-2012, 10:47 AM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
(02-12-2012 08:15 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Religion does not offer absolute truth in and of itself. Extreme versions of religion do, but every religion has its moderates. Some religious authority stems from the Godhead, but some religions aren't Theistic, so there you have it. It's important to avoid absolute statements when they are not supported by fact because you simply become an agent of that ideology when you do.
I really don't agree with that. Religion, at least the 3 major monotheistic, are by definition dogmatic. You cannot be a believer if you don't accept the central dogmas. I was not making an absolute statement, I was just transcribing what religion proclaims.

The public perception of science is a matter of great importance. Don't forget that in a referendum, if you have an informed population, decisions will be reasonable. For example, the empirical falsifiability cancept that clearly distinguish science from pseudo-science would easily demonstrate why ID cannot be taught in science classes.
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02-12-2012, 01:09 PM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Hey, Tia.

Quote:Religion, at least the 3 major monotheistic...

You can't say that. First of all it's a generalisation and secondly you're deliberately leaving out other religions that falsify your statement along with individual moderates who do not believe in absolute truths who falsify your statement. If you want to shit on religion, there's plenty of reasons to. You have no need of inventing new ones. Stick to what's actually true. Let's not succumb to "because they're big bad poopie heads" arguments.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-12-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
...agnostic mofo apologist... grumble, grumble, grumble....

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02-12-2012, 01:50 PM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
(02-12-2012 01:09 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Tia.

Quote:Religion, at least the 3 major monotheistic...

You can't say that. First of all it's a generalisation and secondly you're deliberately leaving out other religions that falsify your statement along with individual moderates who do not believe in absolute truths who falsify your statement. If you want to shit on religion, there's plenty of reasons to. You have no need of inventing new ones. Stick to what's actually true. Let's not succumb to "because they're big bad poopie heads" arguments.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
My generalization was due to the fact that the OP posed the question in the USA context.
A religious person that does not believe in absolute truths... Consider You either believe in a religion and accept the central dogma, or you don't. There's no half-way. If you're divided, then you're an agnostic.

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02-12-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Hey, Tia.

That's far too simplistic to be of any value. If you believe it, so be it. Doesn't make it so. It just seems out of place in a thread that is asking if people are making absolute statements in the guise of scientific truth.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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02-12-2012, 03:19 PM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
(02-12-2012 02:30 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Tia.

That's far too simplistic to be of any value. If you believe it, so be it. Doesn't make it so. It just seems out of place in a thread that is asking if people are making absolute statements in the guise of scientific truth.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Yep is a side question.

I can talk about my country, Portugal. There's a study made here in which it was clearly shown that people in general take science as an unquestionable truth. How many people have you heard using the term 'It's scientificly proven!' to end a discussion.

I think that this view on science is widespread and that it can have a boomerang effect, because it can lead the argument 'they're not really sure' to discredit science. Don't forget that the majority of science is funded by state and thus public opinion is important. Science communication is extremely important. That's my point since the beginning of this discussion.

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03-12-2012, 12:23 AM
RE: Is science being hijacked?
Hey, Tia.

Obregado.

I concur.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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