Is science better or getting better?
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01-06-2013, 05:08 PM
Is science better or getting better?
"More sophisticated" again when using the current scientific definition of sophistication then yes any past scientific view is going to be considered less sophisticated.
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02-06-2013, 12:34 AM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
(01-06-2013 05:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  "More sophisticated" again when using the current scientific definition of sophistication then yes any past scientific view is going to be considered less sophisticated.

Duh, Chas keeps fucking telling you science is a process in his signature with every fucking post. ... Discovering evidence of the Higgs Boson is far more sophisticated than, for example, Grog need food, Grog need sex, Grog needs to shit. Duh.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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02-06-2013, 12:37 AM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
(01-06-2013 05:06 PM)I and I Wrote:  So you don't believe that a given field of knowledge and its believers generally rejects views that do not fit within its paradigm?

Not generally, no, that'd be silly. But specifically, yes, quite often when it becomes obvious they are completely full of shit.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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02-06-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
Perhaps we can equate "better" with "more useful", which we could constrain further as "more useful for supporting human capability through engineering and other vectors" - otherwise a better question might be "is increasing human capability a good thing?". If we take that limited form if the question then yes, we continue to discover useful information by applying the process.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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02-06-2013, 05:16 PM
Is science better or getting better?
There are many examples of science capitulating to government and self censorship. When scientists working for the tobacco industry hid their findings or when other scientists hide findings of harmful goods. They are real scientists and they are capitulating to and censoring themselves.
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03-06-2013, 10:38 AM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
(02-06-2013 05:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  There are many examples of science capitulating to government and self censorship. When scientists working for the tobacco industry hid their findings or when other scientists hide findings of harmful goods. They are real scientists and they are capitulating to and censoring themselves.

I think you are confusing the matter. What does this have to do with science?

People do what people do regardless of whether they are junkies or politicians or lawyers or scientists.

Why did you change the subject?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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03-06-2013, 11:21 AM
Is science better or getting better?
(03-06-2013 10:38 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(02-06-2013 05:16 PM)I and I Wrote:  There are many examples of science capitulating to government and self censorship. When scientists working for the tobacco industry hid their findings or when other scientists hide findings of harmful goods. They are real scientists and they are capitulating to and censoring themselves.

I think you are confusing the matter. What does this have to do with science?

People do what people do regardless of whether they are junkies or politicians or lawyers or scientists.

Why did you change the subject?

Of course science isn't the only thing that can be affected by political and economic factors, The point is that science can be, making it just as open to bullshit as politics and economics.
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03-06-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
(03-06-2013 11:21 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(03-06-2013 10:38 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  I think you are confusing the matter. What does this have to do with science?

People do what people do regardless of whether they are junkies or politicians or lawyers or scientists.

Why did you change the subject?

Of course science isn't the only thing that can be affected by political and economic factors, The point is that science can be, making it just as open to bullshit as politics and economics.

Change science to scientists and we can agree. Science is a process. A framework. Frameworks are not corrupt. It's people that can be corrupt. People doing bad things under the banner of science doesn't change the concept. Science caught up with the tobacco companies in the end didn't it!

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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03-06-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: Is science better or getting better?
(03-06-2013 03:36 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(03-06-2013 11:21 AM)I and I Wrote:  Of course science isn't the only thing that can be affected by political and economic factors, The point is that science can be, making it just as open to bullshit as politics and economics.

Change science to scientists and we can agree. Science is a process. A framework. Frameworks are not corrupt. It's people that can be corrupt. People doing bad things under the banner of science doesn't change the concept. Science caught up with the tobacco companies in the end didn't it!

Couldn't have said it better. Terser, maybe.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-06-2013, 09:22 AM
Is science better or getting better?
(03-06-2013 03:36 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(03-06-2013 11:21 AM)I and I Wrote:  Of course science isn't the only thing that can be affected by political and economic factors, The point is that science can be, making it just as open to bullshit as politics and economics.

Change science to scientists and we can agree. Science is a process. A framework. Frameworks are not corrupt. It's people that can be corrupt. People doing bad things under the banner of science doesn't change the concept. Science caught up with the tobacco companies in the end didn't it!

Science isn't some entity that exists in wooville. Science is a process, a process only implemented by humans hence there will never be a science that isn't influenced by things like politics or economics. Even religion has influenced science unfortunately, more so in the past though.
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