Is suicide selfish?
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30-01-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: Is suicide selfish?
(29-01-2015 10:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(29-01-2015 07:28 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  What are your views on this subject?

Why would it selfish? Why not courageous and sacrificial. You took on what everyone else is afraid of, death, and welcomed it on your own terms. You left for everyone what inheritance you had remaining to be equally divided among the lot, a space for someone else to now occupy. You rid the world of one more pollutant footprint, one more mouth to feed, and tend to expensively when you get old and incapable.

Sure a few people, that you could count on one hand, might be sad, but sadness is irrational and fades. If you haven't made much of an impression on their lives, it would likely fade more sooner than you think. Life goes on, as well oiled as it did with you, now without you, and maybe even a little more fluidly in your absence.

Sorry, just serving as the contrarian to popular wisdom.

Are you ever going to return to the other thread and address the replies to you?
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30-01-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Is suicide selfish?
(29-01-2015 07:28 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  What are your views on this subject?

It is only truly inalienable right I have and I treat it as such.

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30-01-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Is suicide selfish?
It's selfish in precisely the same way eating a sandwich is selfish.

When you're hungry enough, there comes a point when you don't think about the little kids in Africa and you eat something to stop the hunger pangs.

Selfish? Sure. But, we can't live (or die) exclusively for everyone else.

I'll also add that people need to understand that a suicide isn't actively trying to hurt you by leaving you all alone. It's not that they don't love you and it's not that they never considered your feelings. There are just some times when the pain is so overwhelming that we're unable to think of anything else. It's not that we don't want to; it's that we simply can't. If someone tied you to a tree and set you on fire, then handed you a gun, you'd use it. You wouldn't be able to think about who you're leaving behind or how they'd feel. All you'd be able to focus on is stopping the pain.

I understand, of course, that circumstances vary. But my point is that people need to be a little more empathetic about those who are suicidal. I mean, imagine what a person must be feeling to make them decide they want to stop living. To voluntarily cease to be. It takes some heavy shit to push a person to that point. Greater sensitivity is needed when it comes to this issue. More sensitivity and less condemnation.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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31-01-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: Is suicide selfish?
This is a really broad question. Can we break it down some?

What Brittany Maynard did a few months ago was not, in my opinion, selfish. She had a terminal disease that was not only going to kill her but was going to ensure her last few months were either spent in agonizing pain or a drugged stupor so she didn't feel anything and couldn't relate to anyone around her, even if she was able to know who they were. She chose not to die that way and not to have the people who loved her have to watch her die that way. When I was 13 I watched my paternal grandfather die that way. When I was 30 I watched my maternal grandfather die that way. And, what I took from both experiences was there was nothing selfish about what Brittany Maynard did. I loved both my grandfathers and I would have given anything to not have them go that way. But, that was the state of compassionate medicine at that time.

But, not everyone has a terminal disease. A long time ago, closing in on 30 years now, a high school friend of mine took his father's gun, put it in his mouth, and pulled the trigger. It was absolutely fucking awful for his family, his friends, and the community in general. And, it took me some time to realize it, but it was an incredibly selfish thing for him to do. I don't know exactly why he did it, but he had just broken up with his girlfriend and that seemed to be what pushed him over. So, he got even. Suicide, and especially teen suicide, is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I think the problem is that kids don't always understand that things change and will get better. Are they selfish? I think it's a little hard to judge that. Some are probably trying to "get even" and really don't fully grasp the impact of what they are doing. They probably have some view where they get to stand as a spirit at their funeral and watch all the people who hurt them feel bad about it, and get some kind of satisfaction. But, it doesn't work that way. Even if we are all wrong here and you do get to watch and feel smug - who ever knows about it? The last laugh is on you. Sadly, these kids just don't realize that.

Then you have full grown adults like Robin Williams who should really know better and do it anyway. Your brain doesn't finish developing until your early 20s. Teens and college students are generally not as grown up as they all like to think they are (I know - shocking). And, it's not just because they are inexperienced but because, biologically, they are not done growing up. That's why they do so many stupid things (that's my defense for my early 20s, at least). But, Robin Williams knew better. Was he selfish? I don't know. It sure feels like he was. Depression is a real thing. It's not something you can just turn off. It has real implications. Should Robin Williams - or any adult - know that they are going to have a real impact on people by killing themselves? They certainly should, but do they? I don't know. I have to believe they don't. If they did, how could they do such a thing to their children and spouses and whomever else is in their lives?

I used to be strongly of the opinion that suicide was nothing but selfishness. But, now I'm not so sure. In some instances - sure. But, I think it's unfair to paint everyone with one brush.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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31-01-2015, 08:30 AM
RE: Is suicide selfish?
I really think the question is wrong.

Suicide is just an act of self-termination. It's a choice. It is how it is used which matters.

Suicide can be selfish and selfless (e.g. I'd gladly give up my life to save that of my son, for example).

What matters - if anything does matter - is the intent and the outcome.

"I don't mind being's a time I get to learn something new..."
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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