Is that some kind of lie?
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18-06-2016, 10:47 PM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
Many details of what the Prophet (saas) said would happen before the last days have reached us. These events are happening one by one in our own time, proving to be yet another miracle of the Prophet (saas). These events, that are happening 1,400 years after the Prophet Muhammad (saas), were explained in great detail, as if he had witnessed them himself.
These are the Prophet (saas)'s prophecies regarding the signs of the end times and the last day, taken from the hadiths:

The Last Hour will not come unless there is much bloodshed.227

Near the establishment of the Hour there will be much Al-Harj, and Al-Harj means killing…228

The day of Judgment will not come until people openly deny Allah.229

Great cities will be ruined, and it will be as if they had not existed the day before.230

Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor.231

People will indulge in homosexuality and lesbianism.232

There will be prevalence of open illegal intercourse.233

The Hour (Last Day) will not be established until murders will increase.234

Pity poor Taliqan (a region in Afghanistan) that at that place are treasures of Allah, but these are not of gold and silver but consist of people who have recognised Allah as they should have.235

There is an indication in the hadith that Afghanistan will be occupied during the end times. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan took place in 1979, or 1400 according to the Hijri calendar. In other words, it coincided with the start of the fourteenth century under the Hijri calendar.
It (Euphrates) will uncover a mountain of gold (under it).236

Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold, so whoever will be present at that time should not take anything of it.237

The rebuilding of the ruined places in the world, and the ruination of constructed places are signs and portents of Doomsday.238

There are two signs of our Mahdi; ...and those signs are that moon will eclipse in the first night of its fixed nights of eclipse and sun will be eclipsed in the middle of the fixed days for its eclipse, during the month of Ramadhan.239

There will be two eclipses of the sun in Ramadan before the Mahdi emerges.240

There will be two eclipses of the Moon in Ramadan...241

The common points emerging from the above three hadiths are:
1. There will be solar and lunar eclipses during the month of Ramadan.
2. These will be spaced about 14-15 days apart.
3. The eclipses will be repeated twice.
In line with those calculations, there was a lunar eclipse in 1981 (Hijri 1401), on the 15th day of Ramadan, and a solar eclipse on the 29th day of the month. There was a "second" lunar eclipse in 1982 (Hijri 1402) on the 14th day of Ramadan, and a solar eclipse on the 28th day of the month.

It is also particularly significant that in that particular instance, there was a full lunar eclipse in the middle of the month of Ramadan, a most striking prophecy.

Before he comes, a comet spreading light will come from the East.242

The birth of that star will follow the eclipse of the Sun and Moon.243

A tailed star will be born from the East and spread its light. Its daily direction will be from East to West.244

- In 1986 (Hijri 1406), in other words at the start of the 14th century, Halley's comet passed by the Earth. The comet is a bright, shining star.
- It travels from East to West
- This happened after the lunar and solar eclipses of 1981 and 1982 (1401-1402)

People will go on the hajj with no imam at their head. When they descend to Mina, the tribes will savage each other like dogs and there will be great wars. To such an extent that feet will be covered in a lake of blood.245

A fire will appear in the sky from the East and a redness will cover the sky for three or seven days in a row.246
A fire will enfold you. That fire is currently extinguished in the valley called Berehut. People will be enfolded in that fire with terrible suffering. That fire will burn and destroy people and belongings. For eight days it will rage over the world like wind and cloud. The heat of night will be fiercer than that of day. That fire will stretch from the heads of man to the highest heavens, and there will be a terrible noise like thunder between the earth and sky, he said.247

- The burning oil in Kuwait led to the deaths of people and animals. According to experts, half a million tons of oil went up into the atmosphere as smoke. Every day, more than 10,000 tons of soot, sulphur, carbon-dioxide and large quantities of hydrocarbons with their carcinogenic properties hang suspended over the Gulf. It is not just the Gulf, but the world itself that is burning.248
- Two wells that were set alight produced as much oil as Turkey does in one day, and the smoke from them can be seen from Saudi Arabia, 55 kilometres away.249
- Continuing news of disaster from the Gulf: Hundreds of oil wells set alight in Kuwait are still burning fiercely. Experts say it will be "exceedingly difficult to put those fires out," and it is said that the fires will affect a wide area from Turkey to India for the next 10 years.
The fire and smoke coming from the wells constantly pollute the atmosphere. Daytime resembles night in Kuwait. The brown smoke that rises together with the flames remind one of the sky as the autumn turns into winter … It will take at least a century for Kuwait to be completely habitable again. The smoke that rises with the flames is visible from miles away, totally blocking out the sky and making the country unfit to live in. The wealthy are abandoning Kuwait.250

He (The Mahdi) will not come until there is a portent from the Sun.251

The solar eclipse of August 11, 1999 was the last of the century. During this eclipse, the likes of which take place only every 400 years, the sun, the moon and the world align. It was the first time that so many people had been able to watch and study an eclipse for so long a duration. Below are some newspaper headlines regarding the phenomenon. This can be interpreted as the "portent from the Sun" referred to in the hadith. (Allah knows best, of course).

Before the Hour comes, there will be a tribulation like patches of dark night...252

The word "tribulation (fitna)" implies anything that turns peoples' reason and hearts away from the true path, or war, incitement, chaos, disorder and conflict. The tribulation in the hadith will leave smoke and dust behind it, we learn.
Furthermore, the way that tribulation is described as "darkness" in the hadith, can be seen as an indication that its origins are unclear, that it is unexpected. Looking at it from that regard, it is probable that the hadith is referring to the world's worst terrorist attack, on the cities of New York and Washington in the United States on September 11, 2001.

The inhabitants of Egypt and Sham would kill their ruler and his commands…253

The people of Sham will take prisoner the tribes of Egypt.254

Today, the states in the region in question include Israel. That is why the hadith could be pointing to the war between the State of Israel and Egypt, and the invasion of Egyptian territory.
The Hour (Last Day) will not be established until ... earthquakes will be very frequent.255

There are two great events before the day of Judgment ... and then years of earthquakes.256
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18-06-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
Yup. I'm convinced.




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18-06-2016, 11:17 PM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
The stupid...it burns.

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18-06-2016, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 11:22 PM by Astreja.)
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
People are already openly denying the god of Islam, Rosechaos. This is nothing new.

And it's nice to know that all we have to do to falsify these silly prophecies is to safely steer the world through a bunch of solar eclipses.

(By the way, the sun, moon and Earth always align during a total solar eclipse, and they happen much more frequently than every 400 years. I've been in the vicinity of two solar eclipses so far in My lifetime, and am planning to travel to see a third one next year.)

Finally, if people who know about these prophesies are actively doing things to make them come true, such as committing murders or waging war on particular cities, the prophesies are not divine. They are merely self-fulfilling prophesies with mortals, not gods, in control of them.

On a personal note, I remember well the August 11, 1999 solar eclipse. I got up early to watch it on the Internet, and simultaneously performed a ceremony to enchant a set of hand-carved Futhark runes. That was in the Days of High Woo-Woo, when I was an agnostic polytheist. (I still have the runes, though.)
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19-06-2016, 12:04 AM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
Boy are all those Christians here in the USA, all pointing to (different) "signs and portents" of the last days, going to be disappointed when the Muslim version is the one that actually happens!

Prophets. Charlatans, the lot of 'em.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-06-2016, 12:23 AM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
(18-06-2016 10:37 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  So you all gonna assume it's wrong without explaining. He didn't predict them only . There are like 50 eg . And most of them is true . Do you wanna see the passage?

Im an aganostic and id be more happier if it was a lie but i need deeper answers to make sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
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19-06-2016, 12:28 AM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
(18-06-2016 10:37 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  Im an aganostic [...]

(18-06-2016 10:47 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  [...] the Prophet (saas) [...] Prophet (saas). [...]the Prophet Muhammad (saas) [...] the Prophet (saas)'s [...]

If you're an agnostic, why are you so diligent about obeying Muslim custom?

I don't think you're being honest here.
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19-06-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
(18-06-2016 10:37 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  So you all gonna assume it's wrong without explaining. He didn't predict them only . There are like 50 eg . And most of them is true . Do you wanna see the passage?

Im an aganostic and id be more happier if it was a lie but i need deeper answers to make sure.

You need to provide actual references to what you are asking.
Who predicted what and where is that prediction? Provide the quotes.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-06-2016, 06:27 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2016 06:56 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
(18-06-2016 10:47 PM)rosechaos Wrote:  Many details of what the Prophet (saas) said would happen before the last days have reached us. These events are happening one by one in our own time, proving to be yet another miracle of the Prophet (saas). These events, that are happening 1,400 years after the Prophet Muhammad (saas), were explained in great detail, as if he had witnessed them himself.
These are the Prophet (saas)'s prophecies regarding the signs of the end times and the last day, taken from the hadiths:

The Last Hour will not come unless there is much bloodshed.227

Near the establishment of the Hour there will be much Al-Harj, and Al-Harj means killing…228

The day of Judgment will not come until people openly deny Allah.229

Great cities will be ruined, and it will be as if they had not existed the day before.230

Gains will be shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor.231

People will indulge in homosexuality and lesbianism.232

There will be prevalence of open illegal intercourse.233

The Hour (Last Day) will not be established until murders will increase.234

Pity poor Taliqan (a region in Afghanistan) that at that place are treasures of Allah, but these are not of gold and silver but consist of people who have recognised Allah as they should have.235

There is an indication in the hadith that Afghanistan will be occupied during the end times. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan took place in 1979, or 1400 according to the Hijri calendar. In other words, it coincided with the start of the fourteenth century under the Hijri calendar.
It (Euphrates) will uncover a mountain of gold (under it).236

Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold, so whoever will be present at that time should not take anything of it.237

The rebuilding of the ruined places in the world, and the ruination of constructed places are signs and portents of Doomsday.238

There are two signs of our Mahdi; ...and those signs are that moon will eclipse in the first night of its fixed nights of eclipse and sun will be eclipsed in the middle of the fixed days for its eclipse, during the month of Ramadhan.239

There will be two eclipses of the sun in Ramadan before the Mahdi emerges.240

There will be two eclipses of the Moon in Ramadan...241

The common points emerging from the above three hadiths are:
1. There will be solar and lunar eclipses during the month of Ramadan.
2. These will be spaced about 14-15 days apart.
3. The eclipses will be repeated twice.
In line with those calculations, there was a lunar eclipse in 1981 (Hijri 1401), on the 15th day of Ramadan, and a solar eclipse on the 29th day of the month. There was a "second" lunar eclipse in 1982 (Hijri 1402) on the 14th day of Ramadan, and a solar eclipse on the 28th day of the month.

It is also particularly significant that in that particular instance, there was a full lunar eclipse in the middle of the month of Ramadan, a most striking prophecy.

Before he comes, a comet spreading light will come from the East.242

The birth of that star will follow the eclipse of the Sun and Moon.243

A tailed star will be born from the East and spread its light. Its daily direction will be from East to West.244

- In 1986 (Hijri 1406), in other words at the start of the 14th century, Halley's comet passed by the Earth. The comet is a bright, shining star.
- It travels from East to West
- This happened after the lunar and solar eclipses of 1981 and 1982 (1401-1402)

People will go on the hajj with no imam at their head. When they descend to Mina, the tribes will savage each other like dogs and there will be great wars. To such an extent that feet will be covered in a lake of blood.245

A fire will appear in the sky from the East and a redness will cover the sky for three or seven days in a row.246
A fire will enfold you. That fire is currently extinguished in the valley called Berehut. People will be enfolded in that fire with terrible suffering. That fire will burn and destroy people and belongings. For eight days it will rage over the world like wind and cloud. The heat of night will be fiercer than that of day. That fire will stretch from the heads of man to the highest heavens, and there will be a terrible noise like thunder between the earth and sky, he said.247

- The burning oil in Kuwait led to the deaths of people and animals. According to experts, half a million tons of oil went up into the atmosphere as smoke. Every day, more than 10,000 tons of soot, sulphur, carbon-dioxide and large quantities of hydrocarbons with their carcinogenic properties hang suspended over the Gulf. It is not just the Gulf, but the world itself that is burning.248
- Two wells that were set alight produced as much oil as Turkey does in one day, and the smoke from them can be seen from Saudi Arabia, 55 kilometres away.249
- Continuing news of disaster from the Gulf: Hundreds of oil wells set alight in Kuwait are still burning fiercely. Experts say it will be "exceedingly difficult to put those fires out," and it is said that the fires will affect a wide area from Turkey to India for the next 10 years.
The fire and smoke coming from the wells constantly pollute the atmosphere. Daytime resembles night in Kuwait. The brown smoke that rises together with the flames remind one of the sky as the autumn turns into winter … It will take at least a century for Kuwait to be completely habitable again. The smoke that rises with the flames is visible from miles away, totally blocking out the sky and making the country unfit to live in. The wealthy are abandoning Kuwait.250

He (The Mahdi) will not come until there is a portent from the Sun.251

The solar eclipse of August 11, 1999 was the last of the century. During this eclipse, the likes of which take place only every 400 years, the sun, the moon and the world align. It was the first time that so many people had been able to watch and study an eclipse for so long a duration. Below are some newspaper headlines regarding the phenomenon. This can be interpreted as the "portent from the Sun" referred to in the hadith. (Allah knows best, of course).

Before the Hour comes, there will be a tribulation like patches of dark night...252

The word "tribulation (fitna)" implies anything that turns peoples' reason and hearts away from the true path, or war, incitement, chaos, disorder and conflict. The tribulation in the hadith will leave smoke and dust behind it, we learn.
Furthermore, the way that tribulation is described as "darkness" in the hadith, can be seen as an indication that its origins are unclear, that it is unexpected. Looking at it from that regard, it is probable that the hadith is referring to the world's worst terrorist attack, on the cities of New York and Washington in the United States on September 11, 2001.

The inhabitants of Egypt and Sham would kill their ruler and his commands…253

The people of Sham will take prisoner the tribes of Egypt.254

Today, the states in the region in question include Israel. That is why the hadith could be pointing to the war between the State of Israel and Egypt, and the invasion of Egyptian territory.
The Hour (Last Day) will not be established until ... earthquakes will be very frequent.255

There are two great events before the day of Judgment ... and then years of earthquakes.256

Here's a quote from the Christian bible:

Signs of the End of the Age:

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.
6: You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7: Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.…


So is Jesus truly the Messiah?

Of course not, because what this prophecy does is use vague language to state very mundane things that have always happened are a sign.

I'll just make up a prophecy right here:

As the end times draw near people will be seeking entertainment and those that seek entertainment will be numerous.

Am I right? Am I the messiah?

There are also other tricks the purveyors of prophecy use to fool people.

An event will happen, then someone will write that their leader predicted the event after the fact. The destruction of the temple in Jerusalem is one such prophecy in the bible.

I'll make a similar prediction here:

A man from Europe with a funny mustache will try to take over Europe by force, he will be stopped by a coalition of many .

I made this prediction back in 1900.

Convinced yet?


BTW-The same Jesus that allegedly made accurate yet vague prophecies, also stated he would be come back to rule over the Earth within the lifetimes of disciples.

When this is presented to Christians, they will typically use about 5 different rationalizations to hand-wave away the obvious truth of Jesus being wrong.


Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return


So hopefully you read that article, but here 's the gist of it that is relevant - when given information that contradicts prophecy, will you realize the flaws of the prophecy and see it for what it is? Or will you rationalize it just like Christians do?

If you choose to rationalize, then you really aren't looking for answers.

If you choose to look at it as a deceitful practice and learn HOW prophecy deceives it's victims, then you will indeed find the answers you're looking for, you will be able to see the flaws of prophecy and not be impressed by it.

You will see it exactly for what it is- an intellectual con game.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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19-06-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: Is that some kind of lie?
Instead of asking "Is this a lie ?"
Ask "Is this true ?"

They might seem like the same thing, but they aren't.
Trying to prove that something is a lie can take up valuable time and resources.

Instead, you can use your time wisely by looking at the evidence for its truth and skeptically asking some basic questions.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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