Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
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12-03-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
Every time I do anything against my better judgement, I always regret it.

I thought that the provocation this time was irresistible, but I really should know it better.

I'll see if I can come to my senses and stop beating up on poor dead horses! Big Grin
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12-03-2013, 08:55 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(12-03-2013 06:09 PM)Zat Wrote:  Every time I do anything against my better judgement, I always regret it.

I thought that the provocation this time was irresistible, but I really should know it better.

I'll see if I can come to my senses and stop beating up on poor dead horses! Big Grin

Your doing good old man. The fact that you don't realize it just means you're an old man.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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13-03-2013, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2013 08:53 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
And what good is that, GirlyMan?

Telling people that we are dumber than ever?

The dumb won't believe you and will call you names, the smart get depressed.

And, what has that got to do with old? You just get even more depressed because your hip hurts! Wink
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13-03-2013, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2013 10:22 AM by TrulyX.)
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(12-03-2013 05:58 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Hard data people, or you're all just old and crotchety.

There are undoubtedly skills that have waned in importance in our society, replaced by new skills. However I'm not aware of evidence that intelligence or any overall measure of skill in society has shifted. Every generation has made these claims about the generation that followed, but I don't see the end of civilisation out my front door.

That only goes toward ol' dude's point, not against it, i.e., what is your point of view/argument?

Maybe it's just from having a USA point of view, but I can't think of how any person can say that from 1980 to now, the trends, basic observation, etc., wouldn't lead them to believe that we are not fucked, especially on our current path.

I guess any person willing to explain why we are not fucked and/or stupid (trying to remain on topic), is welcome to answer.

One just basic observation I made/make: I can't name a single "intelligent" person, post 1970 (80). I guess that would mean, in popularity, and that is still both alive and relevant today.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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13-03-2013, 04:43 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2013 05:07 PM by Zat.)
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
My purpose with this thread was not to depress anyone or to put anyone down.

Rather, it was trying to be a wake-up call to some minds who may have suspected that they lost something when they gained something else.

When I was teaching algebra at college, many years ago, I conducted a class as a court room drama: I was the loan shark on trial, conducting my own defense, trying to prove it mathematically that it was justified to charge $100 interest each day over a $1000 loan at 10% interest.

I mathematically deduced the compound interest formula from basic principles (to prove my case) and told my students that I had hidden a mistake in my deduction and they were to find it.

You should have seen those eager faces, being involved in the hunt, trying to catch me and see me with egg on my face.

They LOVED algebra during that class.

Now we (most of us, anyway) treat it with contempt and brag about our ability to push buttons.

We all lost something: the ability to think in basic principles and that loss is slowly destroying our world.

We also lost the pleasure of being jacks of all trades, as we specialize in narrower and narrower areas and are more and more ignorant of everything else.

How many of you knew how to figure out 99 x 99 in your heads? And it is so simple!

Any idea of how
Erathostenes in 240BC figured out, to incredible precision, the shape and size of the Earth? The size and distance of the Moon? the size and distance of the Sun? With nothing but simple observations and clever logic?

How Michael Faraday discovered the principle behind electric motors and generators, on which we all depend with our daily lives?

Would it be not refreshing, exciting, to know some basic skills beyond those of pushing buttons and watching tiny screens?

Would you not like to brag to your friends at a party, that you can multiply 99 x 99 in your head -- or even 999 x 999 with perfect ease?

Don't despise knowledge and skills that you don't have any more -- you make yourself, your generation and your culture a lot poorer that way.

OK, end of sermon from the crotchety ol' dude. Big Grin
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13-03-2013, 05:12 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
Increasing population, which means more variation from the norm or average.
+
Failing education system.
=
(Stupid People)
A decrease in average intelligence, even though collective intelligence is increasing.

2.5 billion seconds total
1.67 billion seconds conscious

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13-03-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(12-03-2013 05:58 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Hard data people, or you're all just old and crotchety.

There are undoubtedly skills that have waned in importance in our society, replaced by new skills. However I'm not aware of evidence that intelligence or any overall measure of skill in society has shifted. Every generation has made these claims about the generation that followed, but I don't see the end of civilisation out my front door.
The creation of an underclass of $99.99 consumers does not reflect a decent community conscious intelligence; rather; it reflects a dangerous short thinking culture, looking after vested interests, at a quite probable extreme cost, in many ways, to our future generations. Huh
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14-03-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
I guess this horse, as usual, is dead.
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14-03-2013, 04:30 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 04:22 PM)Zat Wrote:  I guess this horse, as usual, is dead.
The older poster needs to find more resilience and forget about the shallow 'fixitnow' pipe dreams of mega entrepreneurs and soothsayers! Thumbsup
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14-03-2013, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2013 05:08 PM by Julius.)
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 04:30 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(14-03-2013 04:22 PM)Zat Wrote:  I guess this horse, as usual, is dead.
The older poster needs to find more resilience and forget about the shallow 'fixitnow' pipe dreams of mega entrepreneurs and soothsayers! Thumbsup
I think Zat is right, math illiteracy is a Dead Horse as far as a reasoned discussion is concerned. Ever since that God-Damned movie"Stand and Deliver", people have come to the conclusion that the kids can learn math as long as they are properly motivated and instructed by the"Magic Teacher" - and when the kids don't learn, then it is the fault of the teacher.However, the real reason that kids don't learn math is that most of them won't shut-the-fuck-up and pay attention.And...then they get away with blaming it on their teacher.

Later on, these same lazy-asshole kids will tell you how unnecessary it is to memorize a few basic concepts -like multiplication tables and basic addition/subtraction - because they got calculators to do that and they want to free their precious little minds to think conceptually.
Yeah…they know it all. They can’t balance a checkbook, estimate a grocery bill or estimate interest-rate payments, but they know how math is supposed to be taught. Meanwhile, like ZAT has said, the predators out there take advantage of such hubris and math ignorance and rip them off at will. I do not feel sorry for them.


Have you ever heard anyone – anyone – getting excoriated for saying “I’m just not very good at math?” I never have. I mean think of it this way, what if someone were to say to you after 12 years of education, “I’m just not very good at reading”. Wouldn’t you look at them like they had lost their fuckin’ mind? I bet most people would and most wouldn’t accept excuses for them either.

Yet…most society will accept the “I’m just not good at math”excuse. Think about it.

The next time someone says “I’m just not very good at math” treat them like they are a fucking moron….because they are a moron! They had 12 years to learn basic arithmetic and how to plug-n-chug an equation and they failed. Fuck these people! Shame them! Then…they’ll figure it out.
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