Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
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14-03-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 04:30 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(14-03-2013 04:22 PM)Zat Wrote:  I guess this horse, as usual, is dead.
The older poster needs to find more resilience and forget about the shallow 'fixitnow' pipe dreams of mega entrepreneurs and soothsayers! Thumbsup

Mr Woof, I have sad news for you: there is no fixitnow or fixitlater solution.

As Julius so eloquently said: the human species is all fucked.

Not only there is no solution, there is not even intelligent speculation about the problem.

As long as we can push tiny buttons with our thumbs and watch tiny screens, exchanging trivia with each other, all is fine and dandy. Big Grin
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14-03-2013, 05:14 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 05:09 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(14-03-2013 04:30 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The older poster needs to find more resilience and forget about the shallow 'fixitnow' pipe dreams of mega entrepreneurs and soothsayers! Thumbsup

Mr Woof, I have sad news for you: there is no fixitnow or fixitlater solution.

As Julius so eloquently said: the human species is all fucked.

Not only there is no solution, there is not even intelligent speculation about the problem.

As long as we can push tiny buttons with our thumbs and watch tiny screens, exchanging trivia with each other, all is fine and dandy. Big Grin
Aw, don't be too negative Zat!

Hope springs eternal............. Yes
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14-03-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
[Image: math_moron1.jpg]
I tell you what bitch...STFU during my math class - it's my Job. Likewise, I will not come down to the bus-station toilet and slap the dick out of your mouth while you are at work.
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14-03-2013, 06:01 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
Please don't judge intelligence by Algebraic ability. I took Algebra 1 twice in high school, both times I passed the first semester and flunked the second. I have been taking remedial Algebra for three freakin' years and now taking what's supposed to be a liberal arts math class and it's kicking my ass, I doubt I will pass it.

I am not stupid, I have a 3.8 GPA and I graduated high school in 1975...pretty big gap there. Plus I pulled this off while battling cancer.

Some people have brains that are geared to math, some don't. It's the same with most things...we aren't all equally capable in the same areas.

In the class I am currently taking (math) I can actually see the point in each area where I stop comprehending anything further. And it's not like I don't want to learn it, don't put in hours upon hours on it, or use the tools I have available. There is a point where I have hit my mathematical limit...period.

I'm a bookkeeper by trade...I can work with numbers. Don't judge how smart someone is or isn't based on one area of knowledge and/or ability.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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14-03-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
As the OP made it clear, the blanket statement (which does not apply to every individual) was based on my own 50 years of experience with average "attention span, ability to follow logic, imagination, vocabulary, creativity, simple arithmetic [not algebra], ... the list is a long one" -- not only on mathematical ability.

If the shoe doesn't fit -- don't wear it.
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14-03-2013, 06:54 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
I was giving an example of one area.

Even my math-deficient self gets frustrated when a cashier can't count back change. To me that seems simple, but I learned how to do it before calculators/computers did it for you.

But thanks for that!

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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14-03-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 06:01 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Please don't judge intelligence by Algebraic ability. I took Algebra 1 twice in high school, both times I passed the first semester and flunked the second. I have been taking remedial Algebra for three freakin' years and now taking what's supposed to be a liberal arts math class and it's kicking my ass, I doubt I will pass it.

I am not stupid, I have a 3.8 GPA and I graduated high school in 1975...pretty big gap there. Plus I pulled this off while battling cancer.

Some people have brains that are geared to math, some don't. It's the same with most things...we aren't all equally capable in the same areas.

In the class I am currently taking (math) I can actually see the point in each area where I stop comprehending anything further. And it's not like I don't want to learn it, don't put in hours upon hours on it, or use the tools I have available. There is a point where I have hit my mathematical limit...period.

I'm a bookkeeper by trade...I can work with numbers. Don't judge how smart someone is or isn't based on one area of knowledge and/or ability.
You failed Algebra because you didn't try. You figured out how to give up, and then you gave up. I never saw the High School or Jr College teacher that would let someone fail into Algebra unless they wanted to fail - went out of their way to fail.

You are studying Law Enforcement, right? Well, why not learn a little skill that might come in handy one day: figuring out people's motivations. For example, do you think Jr College and High School teachers - or even Math Professors at universities - are teaching elementary math for the money? Yeah...big bucks for math teachers in that elementary-math edjumaction racket! No...your average High School Math teacher doesn't make squat concerning all the hours he/she puts in, and the Jr College part-timers absolutely get shafted on the pay scale. No....they teach because somewhere they hope someone will wants to learn - or needs to learn - and they believe that they should enjoy teaching them and helping them succeed.

The ugliest thing I have seen in recent years are the establishment of "Learning Centers" like those run by Sylvan. What a farce! People pay up to $100/hour to get the private tutoring that their teachers would give for free if asked. And why not...the average teacher spends endless hours after school preparing Lesson Plans and Grading Papers and shit and would enjoy the company and the opportunity to help at student - and to also alleviate a potential problem. Any kid who's having a problem and demands this type of attention will get it, and the teacher will make damn sure they learn and won't fail - even if the teacher has to hold the grade until some "make-up" work has to be done. But....people just won't ask it of them no matter how much teachers make clear that they are willing to do it.

The choice is clear: Ask, Try and Pass. Or find a way to fail and do it. The choice is yours.

No more excuses.

Julius
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14-03-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
I think I should point out that our educational problem is a political problem; and it is, at least a good deal of it, the result of horrible teaching, even though a lot of the horrible teaching comes from the political problem.

I think I should also point out that it's one of our many societal problems, part of a large group, to which a fair number of individuals actually have a solution. I'd, personally, say that our education problem, in the US, would be an extremely easy problem to solve, if the political red-tape was cut to allow for it.

I guess, that is the catch-22, however. It would actually take an educated population of voters and potential representatives, in order to recognize, put in place and allow the implementation of the solutions.

Then, it might be nice to add, I think the not "smart" problem, or lack of intellect, is one with society, politics and education. If it's not already obvious that a fall in raw intelligence, kind of wouldn't make much sense.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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14-03-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
(14-03-2013 07:23 PM)Julius Wrote:  No....they teach because somewhere they hope someone will wants to learn - or needs to learn - and they believe that they should enjoy teaching them and helping them succeed.

But that would (or I guess could) be making the incorrect assumption of that leading to them actually having the skills and talent, as educators, to back that up.

Majority of the teachers I had, fucking sucked.

I'd blame it more on the curriculum, then the actual teachers, to some extent, a lot of them complained about No Child Left Behind, for example, but a good deal of them, didn't really have the teaching thing figured out, or just didn't have it in them to be good teachers.

Plus, we had the jaded teachers, as well.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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14-03-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: Is the Bell-Curve shifting to the left?
Hey Julius...fuck you.

Do you think I have invested this much time and money into learning Algebra because I want to fail? There isn't anything I have tried harder to learn.

As for pay and math teachers, my high school Algebra teacher was a nun...no, I don't think she was in it for the money.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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