Is the belief in heaven always bad?
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21-09-2012, 07:35 AM
Is the belief in heaven always bad?
There are some people that I have known, that even if I could have removed their belief in heaven I don’t know if I would have. They seem so scared about death, and even life that I that I don’t know if they could take it. This girl I knew was talking about a family member that died, how much she missed her and that it hurts so much, but at least they can be together in heaven one day.

I know religion has caused harm, I have seen it firsthand. I have seen family members disown each other because of religious differences time and time again. But she held onto that idea, and it gave her comfort… I would not have had the heart to remove her belief in heaven even if I could have.

What are your thoughts on this?
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21-09-2012, 07:40 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
I don't like my mortality either but I came to grips with it when i was 10. Its a coping mechanism.

If someone is using it to cope with a loss, I just don't think it serves any purpose to tear that away from them. Its a bit cruel IMO. In a non-coping circumstances have at it.
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21-09-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
(21-09-2012 07:35 AM)darkfire Wrote:  There are some people that I have known, that even if I could have removed their belief in heaven I don’t know if I would have. They seem so scared about death, and even life that I that I don’t know if they could take it. This girl I knew was talking about a family member that died, how much she missed her and that it hurts so much, but at least they can be together in heaven one day.

I know religion has caused harm, I have seen it firsthand. I have seen family members disown each other because of religious differences time and time again. But she held onto that idea, and it gave her comfort… I would not have had the heart to remove her belief in heaven even if I could have.

What are your thoughts on this?

I see it as false comfort. People would be better off with acceptance of finality of death.

The belief in heaven requires a cascade of other false beliefs, like souls, disembodied spirit, etc. that get in the way of rationality.

So, on balance: yes, it's always bad for adults.

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21-09-2012, 09:28 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
Heaven defined as a place only for humans who are the same.

Hell defined as a place only for humans who are the same.

My head hurts.

Leviticus does not justify stupidity, but it is more than enough to define corruption of the human mind.

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21-09-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
It is a coping mechanism on par with reincarnation. Sure it seems to be helpful in dealing with death and morality, but no more so than believing in Santa makes you look forward to Christmas. If it isn't true (or isn't likely to be true based on a paucity of evidence) then to believe in it is irrational. Irrational minds make irrational decisions. What would her state of mind be if she were unable to convince herself that the person who passed away went to heaven? What if she were faced with the possibility that they MUST be in Hell? That would only exacerbate her grief and would send her into an irrational spiral of trying to justify a way for them to still be in heaven.

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21-09-2012, 09:38 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
(21-09-2012 09:28 AM)Matthew Laramore Wrote:  Heaven defined as a place only for humans who are the same.

Hell defined as a place only for humans who are the same.

My head hurts.

Wanna know what makes my head hurt?

Heaven: This all mystic happy place where everything is good and happy and there's no pain and anger etc.. and everyone lives in Utopian paradise.

Person dies: Friend cries for weeks over extreme pain they are feeling for their friend dying.

Friend crying because friend is in eternal happy utopian paradise and don't worry you'll seem them there a bit later on in life?

AKA, this crying friend either a) has doubts, or b) this crying friend is a selfish cunt.

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21-09-2012, 09:47 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
I had to put my cat down last night - he'd been a good friend for the last 12 years.

A friend of mine let me know my cat and hers were now frolicking together in heaven. Wanted to say WTF!

Seriously, I understand the sentiment (she also knows I'm a somewhat ardent atheist). I think as humans, we have this inherent desire to believe that there is something beyond this physical world we live in. It gives us immense comfort, especially as we cross the threshold into nothingness (because that is scary and cold...). Religious philosophies offer an "answer" that addresses this spooky scary scenario. I understand the rationale that goes along with buying in to these ideas, I also understand why, in the absence of proof that they exist, they should be rejected out of hand.

The problem, as I see it, is that it allows religious adherents the feeling that there is always tomorrow to set things right, or make of for their transgressions. Some guy can act like a prick all the live long day because he "knows" in his heart that as long as he's on the right side of the belief system, he cannot be punished for eternity...I call bullocks! Smile

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21-09-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
(21-09-2012 09:47 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  I had to put my cat down last night - he'd been a good friend for the last 12 years.

A friend of mine let me know my cat and hers were now frolicking together in heaven. Wanted to say WTF!

Seriously, I understand the sentiment (she also knows I'm a somewhat ardent atheist). I think as humans, we have this inherent desire to believe that there is something beyond this physical world we live in. It gives us immense comfort, especially as we cross the threshold into nothingness (because that is scary and cold...). Religious philosophies offer an "answer" that addresses this spooky scary scenario. I understand the rationale that goes along with buying in to these ideas, I also understand why, in the absence of proof that they exist, they should be rejected out of hand.

The problem, as I see it, is that it allows religious adherents the feeling that there is always tomorrow to set things right, or make of for their transgressions. Some guy can act like a prick all the live long day because he "knows" in his heart that as long as he's on the right side of the belief system, he cannot be punished for eternity...I call bullocks! Smile

Sorry about your cat, had to do that to mine two years ago, I loved that little cat, it sucked.Sadcryface

Couldn't agree more with the rest of your post. I just don't get where this belief helps in anyway.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
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21-09-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
My younger daughter has to believe in a heaven at this point and I can't debate her on it. It is the only comfort she has, false as it may be, that her best friend is somewhere, not just gone. Tori was murdered almost two years ago, it's the only way my daughter can deal right now. She is talking about it less and less but that belief, false or not, kept her sane and able to keep going.

There are times that many of us turn to things for comfort when something traumatic happens, for some it's drugs or drink, for some it's a belief in an afterlife ir heaven scenario. I don't see that so much as a delusion as a coping mechanism.

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21-09-2012, 09:56 AM
RE: Is the belief in heaven always bad?
Consider

Is a belief in Santa always bad?

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