Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
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01-10-2016, 05:39 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(30-09-2016 09:31 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Honestly people, why do you feed the troll? Huh

This one is not only unintelligible and unintelligent but is playing out a fucking Stark Trek fantasy for fuck’s sake.

You all must be really bored.

I needed time to think about a problem for work and it helps to distract the conscious mind with sufficient trivia to let the rest work on the problem. Borgia requires so little thought to rebut that he actually serves a useful purpose.

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01-10-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
I'm thinking the Borg has mental issues, he's obviously in complete denial of reality.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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01-10-2016, 06:00 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(30-09-2016 10:11 PM)theBorg Wrote:  2) I see my "warning level". It is still perfect 0 percent. Therefore, someone just keeps bullying. Stop, please!

The warning level is a feature of the forum that is not used. You've been told that before but apparently new information can't get in. Just this once you should try to let it penetrate. You might find that it feels good to learn new things.

Your warning level will probably stay 0 right up to the point where the banhammer falls. It doesn't have any meaning for how this forum is managed. It is not used. A warning of 0% does not mean anything. Bragging that you have a 0% warning level is just another indication that you never bother to learn how anything works, you just make simple assumptions and ignore any evidence to the contrary. You look like even more the fool (as hard as it is to believe that you could look even more foolish than you already do).

If you feel bullied here there is an easy answer: Stop participating.

By the way, I really hope you are a poe because it is always sad to see anybody that incapable of rational thought and so deeply buried in superstition. The fear and ignorance that you so proudly herald is both depressing and disgusting.

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01-10-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(30-09-2016 11:32 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 11:21 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Don't worry. Everyone else got it.
Something tells me that's gonna be carved on the boys tombstone lol

We need something stronger than a simple "like". That was beautiful.
Bowing

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01-10-2016, 06:48 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
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01-10-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(01-10-2016 05:07 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 04:54 AM)Jesster Wrote:  I "sin" according to your gospel's teachings all the time. No regrets here.

I reject both you and your gospel.
Some person is not so sensitive to a small sin. The strongest sin is the suicide, please do not do it.
I would have thought the worst sin would be the denial of god or acting against god's will. Something which I can't do, because I don't think god is real, but if god isn't real then I can't sin. Vicious circle that.

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01-10-2016, 07:05 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2016 10:15 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(01-10-2016 05:07 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 04:54 AM)Jesster Wrote:  I "sin" according to your gospel's teachings all the time. No regrets here.

I reject both you and your gospel.
Some person is not so sensitive to a small sin. The strongest sin is the suicide, please do not do it.

And now we start to get into the ugly side of aggressive Christian beliefs... well, start for Borgy, the rest of us have been immersed in that ugly side for a while... because such hard-and-fast rules do not fit well with a messy reality.

Is not committing suicide generally a good rule to live by? Yes. (By definition.)

Is it a hard-and-fast, worst-thing-ever, avoid-at-all-costs sort of rule? No.

Let me tell you a true story about several people who thought it was, in conflict with several people who thought it wasn't. (This recently aired on Dogma Debate, where I heard it, but has been public in other formats for a while now. I'm working from memory so I might get some details wrong.)

(EDIT: Also, a warning I should have included when I first posted this. The following story is unsettling. You might wish to not read it. The first person to respond to it said...

(01-10-2016 07:14 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  That was possibly the most horrific thing I have ever read. Sadcryface

... so proceed cautiously.)

An elderly man is coming to the end of his life. A lifetime of labor has given him such severe arthritis that he is in severe pain every day. He also has other conditions, such as diabetes, that require him to take medication to preserve his life. After much careful consideration of the matter, he decides that he has had a full and rich life, has little prospect of a rich life in the future given his incurable medical condition, and decides that it is time to pass on. He gathers his wife and daughter to his side and discusses matters with them. They regret that he's going to die, but agree to honor his wishes to do so with a minimum of pain, and a maximum of dignity and self-determination. These, by the way, are all Christians.

Then the story becomes one of hellish torture, because we've got other Christians involved here -- ones who believe as you do, that suicide is one of the worst things ever, and worse, they actually have legal power over this family. The polity they live in has laws where anyone who assists in a suicide is guilty of murder, subject to all the criminal penalties attached to murder. This includes simply providing the person taking their own life with the implements to do so. Furthermore, anyone suspected of being suicidal is committed, against their will, to psychiatric care... essentially put in a cage where they are not able to hurt themselves.

Because the elderly man does not wish to land his family in prison, and because he does not want to be separated from them and spend his last days in a padded cell, he's stuck with various forms of ending his life that do not involve suicide. He goes into hospice care, which means taking him off all medical support and trying to keep him comfortable while he waits to die. He stops taking all the drugs keeping him alive, leaving him only a morphine prescription for the pain, which he is capable of self-administering and allowed to self-administer. He signs several documents, supposedly legally binding, which indicate that he is not to be hospitalized or resuscitated and that no life-extending medical procedures are to be performed on him. He is very much wanting to avoid both the personal hardship and agony of, for example, going through a month bedridden and trying not to gag on a breathing tube, and also spare his survivors from the financial burden of an extended end-of-life hospitalization. He signs more documents that give his daughter, a professional nurse, final power to make medical decisions on his behalf when he is incapacitated, and gets her and his wife to promise that they'll honor his wishes.

Already this is sub-optimal. The dying process is still likely to be extremely painful when it occurs naturally. Methods exist to make it painless, but they have been denied to this man who everyone agrees does not have long to live. We literally do not treat dogs this badly. But it gets worse.

A temporary improvement in the man's condition causes him to be removed from hospice care. It gets worse again, he re-enrolls, but this time he does not receive a morphine prescription. A doctor does issue the prescription, but the company running the hospice program hides it and doesn't even let the family know about it, because a particularly vile woman in the company had taken a personal disliking to the man. She thought his readiness to die constituted a "negative attitude", and failing to persuade him otherwise she became frustrated and vindictive. When before he had been able to relax, to a degree, now he is in physical agony. His daughter's a medical professional and knows perfectly well that her father's supposed to be getting morphine, and is fighting hard to get it legally.

One day the father's physical agony becomes worse than ever before, and he begs his daughter to do something, anything for the pain. They still have a vial of his old morphine prescription. Ignoring the law (or at least she thinks it's against the law; she doesn't know that the doctors prescribed him morphine again, because the hospice company withheld that information) she gets the vial of morphine and brings it to her father. She hands it to him while she turns to get the measuring instruments to measure out a dose. When she turns back, she discovers her father has swallowed the entire vial.

The daughter has no idea how much morphine was left in the vial and doesn't know if it was a lethal dose, but she knows that her father wants to die and she has promised to honor his wishes. So rather than call emergency services, she instead places a call to the hospice nurse who has been making house calls, telling her what happens. She comes out to monitor the situation and see if there's anything she can do to provide him with additional comfort in his last hours.

After a few minutes, the man's pain subsides. He lies in bed, weak but lucid and the most pain-free he's been throughout this entire ordeal. He and his daughter and wife talk at length about things they've never talked about before. He seems at peace and restful. The nurse arrives, watches the situation, and about an hour after the man took the morphine she steps out to to check in with her employer.

Her employer, the hospice company, immediately calls an ambulance. This is because suicide is not allowed as part of hospice care, not where they live.

The paramedics are a bit confused about whether to administer life-saving medical care. The daughter explains matters to them, but is flustered by their unexpected arrival. She describes giving her father the morphine, by which she means that she handed him the vial, but which they take as meaning that she administered the dosage to him. (I don't know if your translation software will get this right, so I'll be clear. "Giving", in this context, could cover either of those things.) Because they see this as an assisted suicide, equivalent to murder, they call the police.

The daughter is arrested, and entirely against his will the man is rushed to the hospital. His condition is monitored and he seems to be improving, but the police are looking over the doctors' shoulders and they feel they have to do everything to save his life, despite supposedly legally binding documents that say they shouldn't. Because he's suspected of attempting suicide, the man doesn't get to make his medical decisions. Because the daughter's been arrested for supposedly trying to kill him, she doesn't get to make the decisions either. It falls to the man's wife. The police tell her that her daughter will face far worse criminal penalties if her husband dies as a result of this than if he doesn't, basically the difference (in their eyes) between murder and attempted murder. Fearing for her safety, the wife agrees to let the doctors save her husband's life, choosing to help her daughter and violate her husband's wishes.

Throughout all of this, the man is weak but lucid, and is pleading with everyone who will listen to not let the police do anything to his daughter, and also not to save his life.

The doctors administer harsh drugs designed to purge the morphine from the man's system. The pain returns and he reacts negatively to the drugs. Six days later, if I'm remembering the story right, he dies. He spent his last days gagging on a breathing tube while the pain of the arthritis returns full-force. The drugs destroyed his digestive system and he suffered from severe diarrhea while strapped into a bed to prevent him from hurting himself. It was particularly acidic, and he died with acid burns covering most of his legs and back.

The county coroner, who is a Christian who believes, as you do, that suicide is one of the worst sins possible, is a politician running for higher office. His top issue is to defend the "sanctity of life". He wants to make an example to help his campaign. Despite plenty of medical evidence that the man didn't die from a morphine overdose, but rather from the treatment administered to reverse the overdose, he fills out the death certificate with the cause of death listed as homicide. His daughter is charged with his murder and put on trial.

No one ever learns whether the man was trying to kill himself with an overdose, or was simply so eager to take his medicine that he didn't wait for it to be properly measured.

All of the people in this story are (or were) Christians.

Is suicide a bad thing? In most cases, yes.

Is it the worst thing possible? No. There are much, much, much worse things than that.
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01-10-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
Holy Spirit is essentially a personification of a psychotic break. Undecided

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01-10-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(01-10-2016 07:05 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 05:07 AM)theBorg Wrote:  Some person is not so sensitive to a small sin. The strongest sin is the suicide, please do not do it.

And now we start to get into the ugly side of aggressive Christian beliefs... well, start for Borgy, the rest of us have been immersed in that ugly side for a while... because such hard-and-fast rules do not fit well with a messy reality.

Is not committing suicide generally a good rule to live by? Yes. (By definition.)

Is it a hard-and-fast, worst-thing-ever, avoid-at-all-costs sort of rule? No.

Let me tell you a true story about several people who thought it was, in conflict with several people who thought it wasn't. (This recently aired on Dogma Debate, where I heard it, but has been public in other formats for a while now. I'm working from memory so I might get some details wrong.)

An elderly man is coming to the end of his life. A lifetime of labor has given him such severe arthritis that he is in severe pain every day. He also has other conditions, such as diabetes, that require him to take medication to preserve his life. After much careful consideration of the matter, he decides that he has had a full and rich life, has little prospect of a rich life in the future given his incurable medical condition, and decides that it is time to pass on. He gathers his mother and daughter to his side and discusses matters with them. They regret that he's going to die, but agree to honor his wishes to do so with a minimum of pain, and a maximum of dignity and self-determination. These, by the way, are all Christians.

Then the story becomes one of hellish torture, because we've got other Christians involved here -- ones who believe as you do, that suicide is one of the worst things ever, and worse, they actually have legal power over this family. The polity they live in has laws where anyone who assists in a suicide is guilty of murder, subject to all the criminal penalties attached to murder. This includes simply providing the person taking their own life with the implements to do so. Furthermore, anyone suspected of being suicidal is committed, against their will, to psychiatric care... essentially put in a cage where they are not able to hurt themselves.

Because the elderly man does not wish to land his family in prison, and because he does not want to be separated from them and spend his last days in a padded cell, he's stuck with various forms of ending his life that do not involve suicide. He goes into hospice care, which means taking him off all medical support and trying to keep him comfortable while he waits to die. He stops taking all the drugs keeping him alive, leaving him only a morphine prescription for the pain, which he is capable of self-administering and allowed to self-administer. He signs several documents, supposedly legally binding, which indicate that he is not to be hospitalized or resuscitated and that no life-extending medical procedures are to be performed on him. He is very much wanting to avoid both the personal hardship and agony of, for example, going through a month bedridden and trying not to gag on a breathing tube, and also spare his survivors from the financial burden of an extended end-of-life hospitalization. He signs more documents that give his daughter, a professional nurse, final power to make medical decisions on his behalf when he is incapacitated, and gets her and his wife to promise that they'll honor his wishes.

Already this is sub-optimal. The dying process is still likely to be extremely painful when it occurs naturally. Methods exist to make it painless, but they have been denied to this man who everyone agrees does not have long to live. We literally do not treat dogs this badly. But it gets worse.

A temporary improvement in the man's condition causes him to be removed from hospice care. It gets worse again, he re-enrolls, but this time he does not receive a morphine prescription. A doctor does issue the prescription, but the company running the hospice program hides it and doesn't even let the family know about it, because a particularly vile woman in the company had taken a personal disliking to the man. She thought his readiness to die constituted a "negative attitude", and failing to persuade him otherwise she became frustrated and vindictive. When before he had been able to relax, to a degree, now he is in physical agony. His daughter's a medical professional and knows perfectly well that her father's supposed to be getting morphine, and is fighting hard to get it legally.

One day the father's physical agony becomes worse than ever before, and he begs his daughter to do something, anything for the pain. They still have a vial of his old morphine prescription. Ignoring the law (or at least she thinks it's against the law; she doesn't know that the doctors prescribed him morphine again, because the hospice company withheld that information) she gets the vial of morphine and brings it to her father. She hands it to him while she turns to get the measuring instruments to measure out a dose. When she turns back, she discovers her father has swallowed the entire vial.

The daughter has no idea how much morphine was left in the vial and doesn't know if it was a lethal dose, but she knows that her father wants to die and she has promised to honor his wishes. So rather than call emergency services, she instead places a call to the hospice nurse who has been making house calls, telling her what happens. She comes out to monitor the situation and see if there's anything she can do to provide him with additional comfort in his last hours.

After a few minutes, the man's pain subsides. He lies in bed, weak but lucid and the most pain-free he's been throughout this entire ordeal. He and his daughter and wife talk at length about things they've never talked about before. He seems at peace and restful. The nurse arrives, watches the situation, and about an hour after the man took the morphine she steps out to to check in with her employer.

Her employer, the hospice company, immediately calls an ambulance. This is because suicide is not allowed as part of hospice care, not where they live.

The paramedics are a bit confused about whether to administer life-saving medical care. The daughter explains matters to them, but is flustered by their unexpected arrival. She describes giving her father the morphine, by which she means that she handed him the vial, but which they take as meaning that she administered the dosage to him. (I don't know if your translation software will get this right, so I'll be clear. "Giving", in this context, could cover either of those things.) Because they see this as an assisted suicide, equivalent to murder, they call the police.

The daughter is arrested, and entirely against his will the man is rushed to the hospital. His condition is monitored and he seems to be improving, but the police are looking over the doctors' shoulders and they feel they have to do everything to save his life, despite supposedly legally binding documents that say they shouldn't. Because he's suspected of attempting suicide, the man doesn't get to make his medical decisions. Because the daughter's been arrested for supposedly trying to kill him, she doesn't get to make the decisions either. It falls to the man's wife. The police tell her that her daughter will face far worse criminal penalties if her husband dies as a result of this than if he doesn't, basically the difference (in their eyes) between murder and attempted murder. Fearing for her safety, the wife agrees to let the doctors save her husband's life, choosing to help her daughter and violate her husband's wishes.

Throughout all of this, the man is weak but lucid, and is pleading with everyone who will listen to not let the police do anything to his daughter, and also not to save his life.

The doctors administer harsh drugs designed to purge the morphine from the man's system. The pain returns and he reacts negatively to the drugs. Six days later, if I'm remembering the story right, he dies. He spent his last days gagging on a breathing tube while the pain of the arthritis returns full-force. The drugs destroyed his digestive system and he suffered from severe diarrhea while strapped into a bed to prevent him from hurting himself. It was particularly acidic, and he died with acid burns covering most of his legs and back.

The county coroner, who is a Christian who believes, as you do, that suicide is one of the worst sins possible, is a politician running for higher office. His top issue is to defend the "sanctity of life". He wants to make an example to help his campaign. Despite plenty of medical evidence that the man didn't die from a morphine overdose, but rather from the treatment administered to reverse the overdose, he fills out the death certificate with the cause of death listed as homicide. His daughter is charged with his murder and put on trial.

No one ever learns whether the man was trying to kill himself with an overdose, or was simply so eager to take his medicine that he didn't wait for it to be properly measured.

All of the people in this story are (or were) Christians.

Is suicide a bad thing? In most cases, yes.

Is it the worst thing possible? No. There are much, much, much worse things than that.

That was possibly the most horrific thing I have ever read. Sadcryface

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01-10-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(01-10-2016 07:14 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  That was possibly the most horrific thing I have ever read. Sadcryface

Sorry. I should have posted a content warning. Fixed that.

Unfortunately, it's far from the most horrific thing I've ever read. I'll try to post a content warning if I discuss some of the topics worse than this.
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