Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
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02-10-2016, 08:59 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 02:12 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Also, Aliza, is the Wiki wrong? They say the Jews have "ten words", later "verses" and then "commandments" in the christian bibles.

I'm not familiar with this, sorry. Undecided
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02-10-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 01:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 01:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  These 7 cover belief and worship:
1. Do not murder.
2. Do not steal.
3. Do not worship false gods.
4. Do not be sexually immoral.
5. Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.
6. Do not curse God.
7. Set up courts and bring offenders to justice

Note that #'s 3 and 6 do not say that you must believe in G-d. It only says don't curse G-d, and it tells you not to worship false gods.

Numbers 3 and 6 rather assume the existence of a god.
And, at the very least, #6 says "Don't offend the delusional".

Six assumes the existence, but doesn't impose such belief. (We could get into the conversation about what constitutes "cursing G-d", and whether or not that action is simply saying the words, "Damn you, G-d!"). The third is only assuming that the person may wish to worship a god, and it tries to direct people's actions away from idolatry, which at the time these were written, often meant human sacrifice. It still doesn't say that you must worship or that you must believe.

Whether you like or appreciate the rules, the rules do not show that Judaism wants to try to compel everyone to become a theist. Judaism doesn't have a problem with atheism, it has a problem with bad behavior, ie: sin. What Judaism may say is bad behavior may be different than what you say is bad behavior, but the seven rules are still about a person's behavior and not their beliefs.
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02-10-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 01:38 AM)Astreja Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 01:02 AM)Aliza Wrote:  These 7 cover belief and worship:
1. Do not murder.
2. Do not steal.
3. Do not worship false gods.
4. Do not be sexually immoral.
5. Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.
6. Do not curse God.
7. Set up courts and bring offenders to justice

Note that #'s 3 and 6 do not say that you must believe in G-d. It only says don't curse G-d, and it tells you not to worship false gods.

Thank you for the list; I hadn't previously seen that group of laws.

I'm trying to imagine the circumstances that would have necessitated rule #5, and the way #7 is phrased, as a positive admonition rather than a "do not" is interesting.

Apparently, to maintain a fresh source of meat, people would perform surgery on an animal and cut its legs off. I guess people would eat one leg at a time before killing the animal and consuming the rest of the meat.
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02-10-2016, 09:36 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 09:13 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 01:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  Numbers 3 and 6 rather assume the existence of a god.
And, at the very least, #6 says "Don't offend the delusional".

Six assumes the existence, but doesn't impose such belief. (We could get into the conversation about what constitutes "cursing G-d", and whether or not that action is simply saying the words, "Damn you, G-d!"). The third is only assuming that the person may wish to worship a god, and it tries to direct people's actions away from idolatry, which at the time these were written, often meant human sacrifice. It still doesn't say that you must worship or that you must believe.

Whether you like or appreciate the rules, the rules do not show that Judaism wants to try to compel everyone to become a theist. Judaism doesn't have a problem with atheism, it has a problem with bad behavior, ie: sin. What Judaism may say is bad behavior may be different than what you say is bad behavior, but the seven rules are still about a person's behavior and not their beliefs.

I can't agree here ...
"3. Do not worship false gods."

The implication here is that there is some true god(s)... it presumes a certain kind of god(s), quite specifically exists. It's emphatically expressed.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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02-10-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 09:36 AM)kim Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 09:13 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Six assumes the existence, but doesn't impose such belief. (We could get into the conversation about what constitutes "cursing G-d", and whether or not that action is simply saying the words, "Damn you, G-d!"). The third is only assuming that the person may wish to worship a god, and it tries to direct people's actions away from idolatry, which at the time these were written, often meant human sacrifice. It still doesn't say that you must worship or that you must believe.

Whether you like or appreciate the rules, the rules do not show that Judaism wants to try to compel everyone to become a theist. Judaism doesn't have a problem with atheism, it has a problem with bad behavior, ie: sin. What Judaism may say is bad behavior may be different than what you say is bad behavior, but the seven rules are still about a person's behavior and not their beliefs.

I can't agree here ...
"3. Do not worship false gods."

The implication here is that there is some true god(s)... it presumes a certain kind of god(s), quite specifically exists. It's emphatically expressed.

This. If I twisted the context, I could use it to assume that all gods were false. That's definitely not the intention here.
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02-10-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 09:36 AM)kim Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 09:13 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Six assumes the existence, but doesn't impose such belief. (We could get into the conversation about what constitutes "cursing G-d", and whether or not that action is simply saying the words, "Damn you, G-d!"). The third is only assuming that the person may wish to worship a god, and it tries to direct people's actions away from idolatry, which at the time these were written, often meant human sacrifice. It still doesn't say that you must worship or that you must believe.

Whether you like or appreciate the rules, the rules do not show that Judaism wants to try to compel everyone to become a theist. Judaism doesn't have a problem with atheism, it has a problem with bad behavior, ie: sin. What Judaism may say is bad behavior may be different than what you say is bad behavior, but the seven rules are still about a person's behavior and not their beliefs.

I can't agree here ...
"3. Do not worship false gods."

The implication here is that there is some true god(s)... it presumes a certain kind of god(s), quite specifically exists. It's emphatically expressed.

I noticed a long time ago that the OT seems to cover the fact there there were more than one god.

Exodus 34:14 "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Jealous of their affections or jealous of the other gods? Or both?

Or variations. But, as usual the non-Jewish versions are translations and transliterstions with word usages and definitions that have changed over the centuties. I understand the Jewish versions reflect the Dead Sea Scrolls quite well.

It could well be that their god supposefly said, "Look you lot, I am IT, there are no others so give me all your attention. Or else . . ." But it lost something in translation - like accuracy.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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02-10-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
Friends, please join the scientific revolution:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-candidate
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02-10-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 10:24 AM)theBorg Wrote:  Friends, please join the scientific revolution:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-candidate

So we can join in on more of your senseless rambling? Pass. I highly doubt you understand the first thing about science.
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02-10-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(02-10-2016 10:08 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(02-10-2016 09:36 AM)kim Wrote:  I can't agree here ...
"3. Do not worship false gods."

The implication here is that there is some true god(s)... it presumes a certain kind of god(s), quite specifically exists. It's emphatically expressed.

I noticed a long time ago that the OT seems to cover the fact there there were more than one god.

Exodus 34:14 "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." Jealous of their affections or jealous of the other gods? Or both?

Or variations. But, as usual the non-Jewish versions are translations and transliterstions with word usages and definitions that have changed over the centuties. I understand the Jewish versions reflect the Dead Sea Scrolls quite well.

It could well be that their god supposefly said, "Look you lot, I am IT, there are no others so give me all your attention. Or else . . ." But it lost something in translation - like accuracy.

What Christians fail to realize is that the Hebrew bible is a book written to Jews and about Jews. It instructs Jews on how to behave, and it makes the distinction that non-Jews are not included in this.

What the Jews believe G-d said to them is really our own business and we make every effort to keep it internal matter. The bible does not instruct us to compel other people to believe or to punish people who don't believe. I'm unaware of any divine retribution, whether to Jews or Gentiles, for anyone who does not believe. It's a personal choice. As far as I know, the bible only says that we must make every effort possible to curb idolatry, which boils down to bad behaviors such as human sacrifice performed to any deity, real or imagined.

When the Christians took our book (without our blessing), they changed the meaning of the texts and weaved in this pagan concept of belief. It's not native to the original Hebrew text. Judaism is a religion that concerns itself with action, not thoughts.
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02-10-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Is the double slit experiment the mind game with Holy Spirit?
(30-09-2016 12:30 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 12:03 PM)theBorg Wrote:  My soul feels the presence of Holy Spirit: 1) I hate to sin, 2) He gave me comfort.

You give no basis for attribution. Emotions can arise from all sorts of places not immediately recognizable to the conscious mind. Simply calming oneself to pray, for example, may have a variety of physiological or culturally conditioned effects that you feel as comfort. Upbringing or natural empathy can instill in you a dislike for or guilt over what you call sin. And even if we ignore natural causes, there's a host of other religions and belief systems, all with their own gods, spirits, or other agents of emotional influence to offer. On what basis in evidence do you identify these as being caused by the Christian Holy Spirit, rather than any of the other possible explanations?
You insert the word Christian.

In there is your folly in logic.

It is that different righteous spirit and is in no way limited to an orthodox Christian or a hypocrite.

Not in any way saying that anyone is a hypocrite.

Peace

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