Is the future predetermined?
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08-02-2017, 07:40 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(07-02-2017 08:35 PM)cactus Wrote:  The atoms in my body were pre-arranged to make this post. Sorry, I had no choice in the matter.

I agree with that. Our bodies are a series of chemical reactions and chemicals don't make choices. Free will is an illusion.

From my perspective free will is also incompatible with atheism.

Free will suggests that there is something beyond the physical and there isn't.
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08-02-2017, 08:36 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-02-2017 07:40 AM)ImFred Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 08:35 PM)cactus Wrote:  The atoms in my body were pre-arranged to make this post. Sorry, I had no choice in the matter.

I agree with that. Our bodies are a series of chemical reactions and chemicals don't make choices. Free will is an illusion.

From my perspective free will is also incompatible with atheism.

Free will suggests that there is something beyond the physical and there isn't.

According to the Quran ... it is written! There is no free will. Everything has been predetermined by Allah.

Are you an Islamist?

Wink

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08-02-2017, 08:50 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  Random is just a substitute for unknown causes. Think of it like dark matter. We know there's something there, we just don't have a very good grasp of it.

To some extent, random does mean the unknown.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  Randomness is unpredictability.

Yes.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  Once we understand the processes behind an event we call random it's no longer random.

Yes.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  When we say certain aspects of the universe are random in nature we are merely saying we don't understand their causes well enough and therefore can't predict their effects.

Yeah, I think that's what most people would agree with, when they think of random.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  It doesn't free you from recognizing the necessarily deterministic nature of everything.

I think that you are thinking about it more than most people would, but I think that most people would agree with you if they thought it through.

If you mix chemicals together you will get a predictable reaction.
If you know the chemicals you mix and you know the amount of each chemical, then you will be able to predict the reaction.

If you do not look at the chemicals you mix, and do not look at the amount of each, then you will not be able to predict the outcome. The reaction will still occur according to the properties of chemistry, i.e. determinism.

However most people would say the choice of chemicals was random, the amount of each chemical was random and the eventual reaction was random and therefore unpredictable.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  Just try and think of a truly 'random' event. What would it look like?

Random number generation on a computer.

(08-02-2017 07:17 AM)excitedpenguin Wrote:  The popular philosophical misconception is it would be completely chaotic, nothing acting on it, it just happens in a vacuum from everything else, in a sense.

To be honest, I've never heard anyone talking about random in that way. I agree that it would not be valid. No event can happen outside of any environment.

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08-02-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
That was a fascinating video, though I wish they'd have taken the time to do a deeper dive on the reasoning behind it.
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08-02-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
Predetermined: I can see the arguments for that.

Preplanned: nope.

I wonder if we'll ever develop an AI capable of assessing all of the variables. If we do, we'll have created something close to a god, even if it's only a god that can predict the future, not change it.
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08-02-2017, 09:44 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(07-02-2017 07:14 PM)Goosesniper Wrote:  Yes it is. 1 trillion in debt. 40 thousand of debt per man, child and woman in Canada. No balanced budget until 2051. That's my children's future after our prime minister has completed his spending spree. This imbecile has to go. I read today most Americans would like to trade Canada PM for trump. We don't want him either. But we will gladly give you Justin Trudeau. You can actually have this arsehole for free. Please someone take him off our hands. He is worse than his father PET. That's pretty fucking bad. PET. Worst PM we ever had. Next to the other rhino dick Jean Chrétien. Another huge left spender who ran us aground. Just saying.

Your political rant is totally irrelevant to any discussion of predetermination. Please try and stay on topic.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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08-02-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
If you can't change the past, then every moment that becomes a past event cannot change, thus every moment in time is set in stone.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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08-02-2017, 06:04 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
Does this mean the Uncertainty principle no longer applies?

Sorry. I'm a few years out of date.

Thanks.

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08-02-2017, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2017 06:30 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(07-02-2017 07:14 PM)Goosesniper Wrote:  Yes it is. 1 trillion in debt. 40 thousand of debt per man, child and woman in Canada. No balanced budget until 2051. That's my children's future after our prime minister has completed his spending spree. This imbecile has to go. I read today most Americans would like to trade Canada PM for trump. We don't want him either. But we will gladly give you Justin Trudeau. You can actually have this arsehole for free. Please someone take him off our hands. He is worse than his father PET. That's pretty fucking bad. PET. Worst PM we ever had. Next to the other rhino dick Jean Chrétien. Another huge left spender who ran us aground. Just saying.


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So if you got a different PM you'd get a different future.
I think that would make it "no". Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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08-02-2017, 06:27 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
Well, if it is, there's nothing I can do about it. Drinking Beverage


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