Is the future predetermined?
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09-02-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-02-2017 11:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 10:00 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Why?

Would you sign a contract or an SLA with a machine?

If not, why not?

Wink

A Symbionese Liberation Army??

Do I look like Patty Hearst???


Big Grin

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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09-02-2017, 12:16 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
In a couple of billion years the sun will expand and absorb the earth... so in that sense, yes.

I, for one, won't care.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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09-02-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-02-2017 06:58 PM)KUSA Wrote:  How can I be held responsible if everything is predetermined?

You have no choice, you're the designated shitbag holder. And boy do you have a lot to answer for. Time you're done you're gonna be begging to be crucified.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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09-02-2017, 12:51 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
I've held back as long as I could you cultureless heathens.





The future's uncertain and the end is always near so I woke up this morning and got myself a beer. Try it, it's good.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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09-02-2017, 12:57 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(09-02-2017 11:46 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  A Symbionese Liberation Army??

Do I look like Patty Hearst???

Can you account for your whereabouts on April 15, 1974? I didn't think so.

[Image: Hearst-hibernia-yell_zpsn6u7hkkm.jpg]

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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09-02-2017, 04:58 PM
Is the future predetermined?
(09-02-2017 12:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(08-02-2017 06:58 PM)KUSA Wrote:  How can I be held responsible if everything is predetermined?

You have no choice, you're the designated shitbag holder. And boy do you have a lot to answer for. Time you're done you're gonna be begging to be crucified.


At least we will be together.
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20-02-2017, 05:28 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-02-2017 09:37 AM)julep Wrote:  I wonder if we'll ever develop an AI capable of assessing all of the variables. If we do, we'll have created something close to a god, even if it's only a god that can predict the future, not change it.

Not really what you meant, but here's a fun little thought experiment of sorts by Ted Chiang.

"over the following weeks, the implications of an immutable future sink in. Some people, realizing that their choices don't matter, refuse to make any choices at all. Like a legion of Bartleby the Scriveners, they no longer engage in spontaneous action. Eventually, a third of those who play with a Predictor must be hospitalized because they won't feed themselves. The end state is akinetic mutism, a kind of waking coma. They'll track motion with their eyes, and change position occasionally, but nothing more. The ability to move remains, but the motivation is gone."

It's a tough choice...

What's expected of us
JACEY
This is a warning. Please read carefully.

By now you've probably seen a Predictor; millions of them have been sold by the time you're reading this. For those who haven't seen one, it's a small device, like a remote for opening your car door. Its only features are a button and a big green LED. The light flashes if you press the button. Specifically, the light flashes one second before you press the button.
Most people say that when they first try it, it feels like they're playing a strange game, one where the goal is to press the button after seeing the flash, and it's easy to play. But when you try to break the rules, you find that you can't. If you try to press the button without having seen a flash, the flash immediately appears, and no matter how fast you move, you never push the button until a second has elapsed. If you wait for the flash, intending to keep from pressing the button afterwards, the flash never appears. No matter what you do, the light always precedes the button press. There's no way to fool a Predictor.

The heart of each Predictor is a circuit with a negative time delay — it sends a signal back in time. The full implications of the technology will become apparent later, when negative delays of greater than a second are achieved, but that's not what this warning is about. The immediate problem is that Predictors demonstrate that there's no such thing as free will.

There have always been arguments showing that free will is an illusion, some based on hard physics, others based on pure logic. Most people agree these arguments are irrefutable, but no one ever really accepts the conclusion. The experience of having free will is too powerful for an argument to overrule. What it takes is a demonstration, and that's what a Predictor provides.

Typically, a person plays with a Predictor compulsively for several days, showing it to friends, trying various schemes to outwit the device. The person may appear to lose interest in it, but no one can forget what it means — over the following weeks, the implications of an immutable future sink in. Some people, realizing that their choices don't matter, refuse to make any choices at all. Like a legion of Bartleby the Scriveners, they no longer engage in spontaneous action. Eventually, a third of those who play with a Predictor must be hospitalized because they won't feed themselves. The end state is akinetic mutism, a kind of waking coma. They'll track motion with their eyes, and change position occasionally, but nothing more. The ability to move remains, but the motivation is gone.

Before people started playing with Predictors, akinetic mutism was very rare, a result of damage to the anterior cingulate region of the brain. Now it spreads like a cognitive plague. People used to speculate about a thought that destroys the thinker, some unspeakable lovecraftian horror, or a Gödel sentence that crashes the human logical system. It turns out that the disabling thought is one that we've all encountered: the idea that free will doesn't exist. It just wasn't harmful until you believed it.

Doctors try arguing with the patients while they still respond to conversation. We had all been living happy, active lives before, they reason, and we hadn't had free will then either. Why should anything change? "No action you took last month was any more freely chosen than one you take today," a doctor might say. "You can still behave that way now." The patients invariably respond, "But now I know." And some of them never say anything again.

Some will argue that the fact the Predictor causes this change in behaviour means that we do have free will. An automaton cannot become discouraged, only a free-thinking entity can. The fact that some individuals descend into akinetic mutism whereas others do not just highlights the importance of making a choice.

Unfortunately, such reasoning is faulty: every form of behaviour is compatible with determinism. One dynamic system might fall into a basin of attraction and wind up at a fixed point, whereas another exhibits chaotic behaviour indefinitely, but both are completely deterministic.

I'm transmitting this warning to you from just over a year in your future: it's the first lengthy message received when circuits with negative delays in the megasecond range are used to build communication devices. Other messages will follow, addressing other issues. My message to you is this: pretend that you have free will. It's essential that you behave as if your decisions matter, even though you know that they don't. The reality isn't important: what's important is your belief, and believing the lie is the only way to avoid a waking coma. Civilization now depends on self-deception. Perhaps it always has.

And yet I know that, because free will is an illusion, it's all predetermined who will descend into akinetic mutism and who won't. There's nothing anyone can do about it — you can't choose the effect the Predictor has on you. Some of you will succumb and some of you won't, and my sending this warning won't alter those proportions. So why did I do it?

Because I had no choice.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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08-03-2017, 02:24 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(07-02-2017 06:52 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Physics says, well, maybe, possibly, yes...

Physics suggests that the future is already set in stone

There's a BBC video on the page that's almost 6 minutes long. Take the time & watch it, it's pretty cool stuff.

Physics has principle limitation: it can not predict the future. Correct? Here the freewill comes in.
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08-03-2017, 03:20 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-03-2017 02:24 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(07-02-2017 06:52 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Physics says, well, maybe, possibly, yes...

Physics suggests that the future is already set in stone

There's a BBC video on the page that's almost 6 minutes long. Take the time & watch it, it's pretty cool stuff.

Physics has principle limitation: it can not predict the future. Correct? Here the freewill comes in.

You really are a simple minded ignorant cunt -ain'tcha???

What physics does BEST is predicting the outcome of interactions of physical items moving through space over time......

The study of physics got man to the moon and back.....

The study of your pissant God got no one anywhere.

Stupid jebusfuckcunt...

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08-03-2017, 04:07 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-03-2017 02:24 AM)theBorg Wrote:  Physics has principle limitation: it can not predict the future. Correct? Here the freewill comes in.

Wrong again. It can. It predicts that when i let this pen in my hand go, it will drop...at an acceleration of 9,81m/s^2, more or less. Depending on my exact distance to the center of the Earth. It also predicts that air resistance will play a negligible but small role as well.

Pretty good prediction of the future i would say.

Got anything remotely as accurate and falsifiable in your collection of silly ancient books?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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