Is the future predetermined?
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09-03-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
Did you have to ask that?
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09-03-2017, 05:35 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(09-03-2017 03:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 06:17 PM)Billanja Wrote:  ...
Why and what for would that even matter, if "the future is predetermined" or not? Why is that considered as a valid existential question at all?
...
It's a merely philosophical question who's answer does not make a difference. Like totally not.
...

I beg to differ.

Mohamed's buddies did, if I can get technical, a shitload of fucking, slaughtering and pillaging because ... "It is written."

Believing that whatever happens, whatever is (including a non-believer's atheism, incidentally) and whatever will be (world without end (blah-de-blah)) has already been predetermined by Allah, means that they could do whatever they wanted (good or bad; right or wrong) and it must be good and right because it is the will of Allah.

Had the experiment by Benjamin Libet in the 1980s or that undertaken by Chun Siong Soon et al been taken at face value, without the intervention of some Philosophers, we'd be in the same boat as Mo's marauding mobsters.

In other words, we'd have no penal codes because the defense will be "It wasn't my fault, my genes / my environment / my brain / quantum particles / my god made me do it."

Unsure

TL;DR - It's more than just philosophical because beliefs, true or not, inform actions.

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09-03-2017, 06:52 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(08-03-2017 06:21 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 04:29 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Of course it can. Go and chuck an apple off the nearest cliff tomorrow. Physics predicts that it'll move towards the earth very quickly.

if the Bob will not catch it first.

So rather than address my simple theory in a mature, evidential way, or disprove my assertion that physics predetermines the path of a thrown object, you choose to respond in a juvenile manner by trying to make a joke—and so completely avoid the question.

When backed into a corner, you seem unable—repeatedly on this forum—to support your nonsensical notions with any viable evidence. I can enjoy a more intellectual debate with my cat; at least she understands what I'm talking about LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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09-03-2017, 07:34 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
[Image: Why+won+t+you+die_f1d488_4143234.gif]

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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09-03-2017, 08:05 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(09-03-2017 03:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 06:17 PM)Billanja Wrote:  ...
Why and what for would that even matter, if "the future is predetermined" or not? Why is that considered as a valid existential question at all?
...
It's a merely philosophical question who's answer does not make a difference. Like totally not.
...

I beg to differ.

Mohamed's buddies did, if I can get technical, a shitload of fucking, slaughtering and pillaging because ... "It is written."

Believing that whatever happens, whatever is (including a non-believer's atheism, incidentally) and whatever will be (world without end (blah-de-blah)) has already been predetermined by Allah, means that they could do whatever they wanted (good or bad; right or wrong) and it must be good and right because it is the will of Allah.

Had the experiment by Benjamin Libet in the 1980s or that undertaken by Chun Siong Soon et al been taken at face value, without the intervention of some Philosophers, we'd be in the same boat as Mo's marauding mobsters.

In other words, we'd have no penal codes because the defense will be "It wasn't my fault, my genes / my environment / my brain / quantum particles / my god made me do it."

Unsure


What has all of that to do with wheather the future is predetermined or not?

People, who are slaves of what they don't know, do all kinds of evil and disgusting things without even considering if what they do is predetermined or not.

I still think it (the answer to the determinism question) doesn't matter a tiny little bit. And here is another reason why: Even if someone comes up with some sort of answer to that question, it's a mere conceptual answer anyway. It can't be proven to be true (being a fact), either way.

"I just took a pee. My bladder made me do it." THAT is a fact.

Understand what I'm saying?
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09-03-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(09-03-2017 08:05 AM)Billanja Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 03:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I beg to differ.

Mohamed's buddies did, if I can get technical, a shitload of fucking, slaughtering and pillaging because ... "It is written."

Believing that whatever happens, whatever is (including a non-believer's atheism, incidentally) and whatever will be (world without end (blah-de-blah)) has already been predetermined by Allah, means that they could do whatever they wanted (good or bad; right or wrong) and it must be good and right because it is the will of Allah.

Had the experiment by Benjamin Libet in the 1980s or that undertaken by Chun Siong Soon et al been taken at face value, without the intervention of some Philosophers, we'd be in the same boat as Mo's marauding mobsters.

In other words, we'd have no penal codes because the defense will be "It wasn't my fault, my genes / my environment / my brain / quantum particles / my god made me do it."

Unsure


What has all of that to do with wheather the future is predetermined or not?

People, who are slaves of what they don't know, do all kinds of evil and disgusting things without even considering if what they do is predetermined or not.

I still think it (the answer to the determinism question) doesn't matter a tiny little bit. And here is another reason why: Even if someone comes up with some sort of answer to that question, it's a mere conceptual answer anyway. It can't be proven to be true (being a fact), either way.

"I just took a pee. My bladder made me do it." THAT is a fact.

Understand what I'm saying?

Yet, beliefs still inform actions.

Whether or not the future is predetermined may or may not be a provable fact, but an individual's belief on the matter will inform their actions. For example, Calvinists (a Christian sect) adhere to predestination, the belief that souls are predetermined to go to heaven or hell. Those who believe this, are influenced by it. Conversely those who think it's a load of bollocks, likewise, have their actions affected by that belief.

The answer may be academic, but the ramifications of such beliefs (one way or the other, true or false) are not.

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09-03-2017, 02:14 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
(09-03-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 03:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I beg to differ.

Mohamed's buddies did, if I can get technical, a shitload of fucking, slaughtering and pillaging because ... "It is written."

Believing that whatever happens, whatever is (including a non-believer's atheism, incidentally) and whatever will be (world without end (blah-de-blah)) has already been predetermined by Allah, means that they could do whatever they wanted (good or bad; right or wrong) and it must be good and right because it is the will of Allah.

Had the experiment by Benjamin Libet in the 1980s or that undertaken by Chun Siong Soon et al been taken at face value, without the intervention of some Philosophers, we'd be in the same boat as Mo's marauding mobsters.

In other words, we'd have no penal codes because the defense will be "It wasn't my fault, my genes / my environment / my brain / quantum particles / my god made me do it."

Unsure

TL;DR - It's more than just philosophical because beliefs, true or not, inform actions.

Yes, to a certain degree I agree on that. But here's the thing were it gets tricky. No matter if you think you are predetermined or not, you act like you do have a choise anyway. As long as you think it matters that you are the one who is in charge, you will take responsibilty for your actions. And if you think you're not in charge, you deny responisibility but that does not mean you're not getting arrested if you break the law and get caught.

If you think or totally believe your actions are predestined, you will still have to deal with secular laws when you disobey them and get caught. And if you think you are responsible you also have to deal with those. And what is the better choise? Taking responsibility or not? I think IF you do take it, you can change your ways. The other way you are bound to be runned and ruled by whatever it is you think is controlling your actions, without being able to change a thing.

That much said about will and the application of it.

Kind regards from Arthur Schopenhauer.
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09-03-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
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@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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09-03-2017, 04:31 PM
RE: Is the future predetermined?
And to answer the inicial question:

For some it is, for others it isn't.
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09-03-2017, 08:44 PM
Is the future predetermined?
Of course it isn't predetermined. That's absurd.


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