Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
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30-07-2015, 02:16 AM
Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
I wud like to know if speciation really occurs (trans-speciation), Have we had enough time for millions of species? The slow changes in traits in organisms, taking tens of thousands of years to yield a visible change in variation as evolution suggests, does eventually trap yourself in to a problem of "Time Riddle" - you just dont have enormous enough of time at hand for all these species to come into being. A quick average time calculation suggests that you should have a new species come into being every 15-20 yrs [just rough average time estimation suggests that in about 1 billion yrs ~50 million distinct species evolved]. Though I believe in evolution but I cant understand this part.
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30-07-2015, 03:49 AM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
Welcome to TTA.

In your calculation, are you seeing evolution as branching or linear?

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30-07-2015, 04:22 AM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
(30-07-2015 03:49 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

In your calculation, are you seeing evolution as branching or linear?

Definitely BRANCH, I just cant understand this part, WHICH a creationist put before while discussing. I also dont knw what the hell did he get this numbers from? Thats why I want some clarifications
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30-07-2015, 04:29 AM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
(30-07-2015 04:22 AM)drkfuture Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 03:49 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

In your calculation, are you seeing evolution as branching or linear?

Definitely BRANCH, I just cant understand this part, WHICH a creationist put before while discussing. I also dont knw what the hell did he get this numbers from? Thats why I want some clarifications

If you start with 1 species... and it splits... now you have 2. If they both experience similar rates of genetic change then in the next time period you have 4... so the rate of creation of new species goes up exponentially. That's what DLJ means when he says branching vs linear.

Besides which you can't just say a million distinct species. There's all different life from unicellular to multi-cellular, and there's even more species that are *extinct*.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-07-2015, 04:44 AM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
Here's an example:

[Image: dogs2-1.gif]

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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30-07-2015, 05:58 AM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
(30-07-2015 04:22 AM)drkfuture Wrote:  
(30-07-2015 03:49 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

In your calculation, are you seeing evolution as branching or linear?

Definitely BRANCH, I just cant understand this part, WHICH a creationist put before while discussing. I also dont know what the hell did he get this numbers from? Thats why I want some clarifications

Does he believe that Noah's ark actually happened? How did we get millions of species from 17,000 (kinds) in 4450 years?

We've had 5 major extinction events, it takes 10-30 million years after these extinction events to regain the biodiversity before the extinction event.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-07-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Is there enough time for SPECIATION for million species
(30-07-2015 02:16 AM)drkfuture Wrote:  I wud like to know if speciation really occurs (trans-speciation), Have we had enough time for millions of species? The slow changes in traits in organisms, taking tens of thousands of years to yield a visible change in variation as evolution suggests, does eventually trap yourself in to a problem of "Time Riddle" - you just dont have enormous enough of time at hand for all these species to come into being. A quick average time calculation suggests that you should have a new species come into being every 15-20 yrs [just rough average time estimation suggests that in about 1 billion yrs ~50 million distinct species evolved]. Though I believe in evolution but I cant understand this part.

In answer to your question, yes.

In more serious question, how did you calculate 15-20 years? Speciation into millions of species should be more exponential in nature (it's a tree branch, not a singular line). 2^30 is over one billion. So if each species ever undergoes up to two speciation events, then if that happens 30 times in the entire history of the earth, you will have 1billion species. I don't know if the number of speciation events should be "2" or some other number, but you get the idea.
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