Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
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21-06-2012, 11:16 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
Why Copernicus?

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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21-06-2012, 11:35 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
(21-06-2012 08:39 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  "Chemical Castration......" No No No ...

Yes - they pumped him full of female hormones... it was horror.

Homosexuality was illegal in the UK at that time, and if convicted for "criminal homosexual activity", some would choose the alternative sentence: "chemical castration", rather than prison.
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I adore Alan Turing... he was a brilliant man. His birthday will be Saturday - June 23 1912... he would have been 100 years old tomorrow! Who knows what would have been if ... Oh well, science was damn lucky to claim such a gifted gentleman.

The Nazis would have certainly had a clear advantage, had he not cracked their correspondence codes. Can you imagine, he helped to invent what would be the world's first personal computer, and then everyone who participated, were unable to speak of it for 50 years?

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22-06-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
Would not anyone who died for an ideal that was not religious inspired be a secular martyr?

If this is the case people die for secular causes everyday. All those women stoned to death for not covering up and all those children hanged for being gay in Iran, all the abortion doctors in the states, etc.

But I hate the term martyr. These people don't die because they want to give their life for a cause they die because some people are total pricks. That's why I firmly don't believe in "martyrdom" as an atheist.

Instead I believe in what I can demonstrate. People are pricks. Getting rid of religion is a big step towards getting people to stop being as much of a prick.
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23-06-2012, 11:26 AM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
Your point here is very good. We are taking a religious-faith proposition and trying to apply it to a secular person.
We actually cannot make this comparison. The secular is a hero, not a martyr. If someone secular sacrifices their life for another or a cause they are giving up everything. A religious person by comparison believes that they are going straight to heaven. So what is the sacrifice? They are actually far better off by their own admission. So the secular hero far outclasses the religious martyr.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-06-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
Fuck it. You guys changed my mind.

The photographer in question was a hero of science, not a martyr.

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23-06-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
That's why we share.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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23-06-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
Martyr is an odd word - there is no other word for it in my thesaurus - and it seems to be completely derived from faith texts.
However, it appears to spring from the discussion of the secular word witness, which did archaically "refer to someone or something for confirmation or evidence of something"

I would venture to say the aforementioned peoples' very existence was confirmation of all that is great, and much that is tragic in humanity. They lived as witnesses of their time, simultaneously living a future they passionately envisioned and espoused.

Unfortunately, those who make the "rules" are rarely visionary. Often, and ironically too late, time makes the humblest our greatest heros. Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-06-2012, 01:19 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
The word martyr does not apply only to the religious.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-06-2012, 01:44 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
(23-06-2012 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  The word martyr does not apply only to the religious.

My shitty dictionary widget says:
a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.
a person who displays or exaggerates their discomfort or distress in order to obtain sympathy or admiration
a constant sufferer from (an ailment)
ORIGIN Old English martir, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek martur ‘witness’ (in Christian use, [martyr] ).

This little bastard has gotten me into more shit than it's worth -fukit- I need a new widget! Undecided

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23-06-2012, 01:47 PM
RE: Is there such a thing as a secular martyr?
(23-06-2012 01:44 PM)kim Wrote:  
(23-06-2012 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  The word martyr does not apply only to the religious.

My shitty dictionary widget says:
a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.
a person who displays or exaggerates their discomfort or distress in order to obtain sympathy or admiration
a constant sufferer from (an ailment)
ORIGIN Old English martir, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek martur ‘witness’ (in Christian use, [martyr] ).

This little bastard has gotten me into more shit than it's worth -fukit- I need a new widget! Undecided
Your widget seems to be in fine fettle. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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