Is there such thing as "Creation"?
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13-11-2014, 05:06 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  That is precisely what red-shift measurements measure.

So the speeds increase with distance.

But we are seeing those speeds of distant objects as they appeared billions of years ago, no?

Yet the near objects are not going as fast ... and I cannot shake that it is because we are seeing them closer to our present time.

Are you suggesting the the expansion is slowing down?

Quote:Another question.

The closest two object from our solar system who are also closest to each other ... anyone have any idea of the speed they are separating from each other?

You can do the math.

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13-11-2014, 05:17 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2014 05:22 PM by Free.)
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 05:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  So the speeds increase with distance.

But we are seeing those speeds of distant objects as they appeared billions of years ago, no?

Yet the near objects are not going as fast ... and I cannot shake that it is because we are seeing them closer to our present time.

Are you suggesting the the expansion is slowing down?

I am suggesting it already has. I wonder what the speed of separation is between our star and Alpha Centauri?

It seems like time is creating a paradox.

Quote:
Quote:Another question.

The closest two object from our solar system who are also closest to each other ... anyone have any idea of the speed they are separating from each other?

You can do the math.

I'll try to find out.

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13-11-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  Another question.

The closest two object from our solar system who are also closest to each other ... anyone have any idea of the speed they are separating from each other?

They probably are not separating from each other at all, because at that close range, gravitational attraction overrides the general expansion. None of the objects in the solar system are separating from each other (at least not over the long term), because they are all gravitationally bound to the sun. Likewise, everything in the Milky Way galaxy (which would include the objects you refer to) is gravitationally bound to the galaxy, so none of those objects are separating from each other either. It is only at "cosmic" distances that the expansion becomes apparent.
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13-11-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 05:17 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are you suggesting the the expansion is slowing down?

I am suggesting it already has.

That does not agree with the data and General Relativity.

Quote:I wonder what the speed of separation is between our star and Alpha Centauri?

You can do the math. Hint: It's tiny.

Quote:It seems like time is creating a paradox.

Quote:You can do the math.

I'll try to find out.

Hint: It's even tinier.

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13-11-2014, 06:56 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2014 07:07 PM by Free.)
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 05:23 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 04:59 PM)Free Wrote:  Another question.

The closest two object from our solar system who are also closest to each other ... anyone have any idea of the speed they are separating from each other?

They probably are not separating from each other at all, because at that close range, gravitational attraction overrides the general expansion. None of the objects in the solar system are separating from each other (at least not over the long term), because they are all gravitationally bound to the sun. Likewise, everything in the Milky Way galaxy (which would include the objects you refer to) is gravitationally bound to the galaxy, so none of those objects are separating from each other either. It is only at "cosmic" distances that the expansion becomes apparent.

I agree. Gravitational influences would make it very difficult to make any determination.

However, if we could just find a couple of galaxies that are distant enough from each other, and distance enough from anything else ...

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13-11-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:17 PM)Free Wrote:  I am suggesting it already has.

That does not agree with the data and General Relativity.

Quote:I wonder what the speed of separation is between our star and Alpha Centauri?

You can do the math. Hint: It's tiny.

Quote:It seems like time is creating a paradox.


I'll try to find out.

Hint: It's even tinier.

So ... it gets smaller and agrees with my theory, but does not agree with general relativity.

Question:

In layman's terms, can you explain what the problem is between the theory I have and General Relativity?

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13-11-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
In layman's terms, you don't understand enough science to understand the difference.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-11-2014, 11:31 PM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
Bro, hand-wavy "maybe it's like this" explanations do not constitute a theory. General relativity, quantum mechanics et al make specific, testable predictions. The real test of whether a theory is good or not is how good the predictions it makes are.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-11-2014, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2014 08:53 AM by Free.)
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 09:31 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  In layman's terms, you don't understand enough science to understand the difference.

Okay, so you don't have enough information/education to explain it yourself?

No problem. Smile

BTW, I am the CEO of an IT corporation 1.5 hours south of you, and we are constantly solving problems that require us to think outside the box on a daily basis. This is why I am always looking for alternatives.

Smile

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14-11-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Is there such thing as "Creation"?
(13-11-2014 06:59 PM)Free Wrote:  
(13-11-2014 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  That does not agree with the data and General Relativity.


You can do the math. Hint: It's tiny.


Hint: It's even tinier.

So ... it gets smaller and agrees with my theory, but does not agree with general relativity.

What gets smaller? What agrees with your theory?

Quote:Question:

In layman's terms, can you explain what the problem is between the theory I have and General Relativity?

While General Relativity provides for a cosmological constant that accounts for the geometry of the universe (flat, open, closed), the data point to the universe expanding at an accelerating rate - a positive cosmological constant.

I don't see anything that supports your thesis.

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