Is this a strawman argument?
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11-01-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Is this a strawman argument?
(11-01-2014 09:09 AM)Baruch Wrote:  The issues you have raised with omnipotence and omniscience have been pointed out long ago as contradictions to classic theism.
I hope no one thinks I thought these ideas were either new or mine. I doubt I will ever come up with something new. I can only spit out the thoughts of people a lot smarter than me and either agree or disagree with them. At best these ideas were new to me.

(11-01-2014 09:09 AM)Baruch Wrote:  Spinoza's conclusion was God cannot be a "Personal" deity which has omnipotence (a separate "will" which can do anything logically not contradictory) but God "as the embodiment of the whole universe" (a kind of omnipotence ?) acts by determined necessity and Spinoza ended up denying free will for God - the whole universe is determined by rational laws. (He didn't know at his time but the exception would be at the quantum level with indeterminacy)
In any case quantum indeterminacy does not solve the problems because on a macro scale the universe still follows deterministic causal laws.

I think Spinoza is right on this.
God must create a universe for a reason or purpose and must do this by logical necessity (otherwise he would not be a God ! )
i.e God cannot not create otherwise He would be impotent & know nothing and have no real power.

Then if God is perfect and knows the best possible outcomes then he could only choose "the best" future and cannot have a choice (therefore no omnipotence). Even more so if God transcends time (whatever that means) then the concept of past, now and future don't even apply and choice becomes meaningless.

God as omnipotent is a human projection of our own weakness & ignorance and need for a superman like figure. We have meaningful choices due to our ignorance of the future and human limitations - if we knew the future we wouldn't have any meaningful choices to make - the concept of a choice becomes absurd and meaningless.

Now I have to go away and think for a long, long time. And I thought my head was broken before! I'm going to need a while just to understand that stuff before I can work through what I think about it. Blink
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11-01-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: Is this a strawman argument?
Quote:Now I have to go away and think for a long, long time. And I thought my head was broken before! I'm going to need a while just to understand that stuff before I can work through what I think about it. Blink


Good - never take anyone's word for it. Go Think about it !
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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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