Is this argument a Gish Gallop
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11-02-2015, 10:30 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(11-02-2015 03:29 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You can answer your own question... I believe in Hell, a place where there is suffering and regret. "So then what was the point of creating a less desirable place like this one with cancer et al. at all? Consider"

I honestly have no idea what your point is here. With heaven (most desirable) and hell (least desirable) both existing in your belief system, yes what is the point of your god putting us on Earth? In fact, if we had all started out in heaven where there is no sin and can be no sin, there would be no need for hell either.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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12-02-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-02-2015, 01:02 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(11-02-2015 10:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(11-02-2015 03:29 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You can answer your own question... I believe in Hell, a place where there is suffering and regret. "So then what was the point of creating a less desirable place like this one with cancer et al. at all? Consider"

I honestly have no idea what your point is here. With heaven (most desirable) and hell (least desirable) both existing in your belief system, yes what is the point of your god putting us on Earth? In fact, if we had all started out in heaven where there is no sin and can be no sin, there would be no need for hell either.

But we didn't start in Heaven, where all those who do not wish to enter Heaven would be forced to remain, forever. We started in the Garden for sorting. Earth is a place of testing and trials.

Non-Christian sources tend to agree with this stance philosophically. "Life has bumps" and so on.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-02-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But we didn't start in Heaven, where all those who do not wish to enter Heaven would be forced to remain, forever. We started in the Garden for sorting. Earth is a place of testing and trials.

According to theists, there is no place better or more desirable than heaven. So who wouldn't wish to enter there? Rolleyes

Why would a god need to testing anything when god supposedly already knows everything? Consider

(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Non-Christian sources tend to agree with this stance philosophically. "Life has bumps" and so on.

"Life has bumps" is supposed to be equivalent to "earth is a place of testing and trials" where those who don't wish to enter heaven are sorted from those who do? Seriously? That's one hell of a stretch!

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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17-02-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  We started in the Garden for sorting. Earth is a place of testing and trials.

[Image: Sorting_hat.jpg]

The notion of "sorting" seems kind of pointless for an entity who can see the future.


(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Non-Christian sources tend to agree with this stance philosophically. "Life has bumps" and so on.

Given that sorting is pointless, all the suffering that goes along with it seems equally pointless.
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17-02-2015, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2015 08:17 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(17-02-2015 06:49 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  We started in the Garden for sorting. Earth is a place of testing and trials.

[Image: Sorting_hat.jpg]

The notion of "sorting" seems kind of pointless for an entity who can see the future.


(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Non-Christian sources tend to agree with this stance philosophically. "Life has bumps" and so on.

Given that sorting is pointless, all the suffering that goes along with it seems equally pointless.

Theists assert too often that suffering is some product of their god's plans, it's more about a universe with no intelligence that has no mind to even comprehend suffering.

A fish holocaust, guess what? No humans involved in that:

[Image: shutterstock_94721146-560x410.jpg]

Lot's of suffering fish though, I wonder if they passed god's test?

Oh look, a lion ate a zebra, didn't consult god or man before it did that:

[Image: lion_zebra_head.jpg]
I wonder if the zebra passed god's test? Or did god give it more than it could handle?

Oh wait, I know! God was "sorting" them to determine if they belong in animal hell or heaven.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-02-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(16-02-2015 03:54 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But we didn't start in Heaven, where all those who do not wish to enter Heaven would be forced to remain, forever. We started in the Garden for sorting. Earth is a place of testing and trials.

According to theists, there is no place better or more desirable than heaven. So who wouldn't wish to enter there? Rolleyes

Why would a god need to testing anything when god supposedly already knows everything? Consider

(16-02-2015 01:02 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Non-Christian sources tend to agree with this stance philosophically. "Life has bumps" and so on.

"Life has bumps" is supposed to be equivalent to "earth is a place of testing and trials" where those who don't wish to enter heaven are sorted from those who do? Seriously? That's one hell of a stretch!

Really, you didn't guess at this simple truth? It's not ONLY a place of sorting. God could look and see the sin you'd do then put you in Hell, but it is just to allow someone to be punished for things they've done and not merely thought to do. The Bible talks about this concept, how sin feels good for "a time" before the consequences arrive. See a rich fat cat treating his employees with evil intent? Living high on the hog, dining at the finest tables, living for pleasure? His time will come.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-02-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(17-02-2015 08:14 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(17-02-2015 06:49 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  [Image: Sorting_hat.jpg]

The notion of "sorting" seems kind of pointless for an entity who can see the future.



Given that sorting is pointless, all the suffering that goes along with it seems equally pointless.

Theists assert too often that suffering is some product of their god's plans, it's more about a universe with no intelligence that has no mind to even comprehend suffering.

A fish holocaust, guess what? No humans involved in that:

[Image: shutterstock_94721146-560x410.jpg]

Lot's of suffering fish though, I wonder if they passed god's test?

Oh look, a lion ate a zebra, didn't consult god or man before it did that:

[Image: lion_zebra_head.jpg]
I wonder if the zebra passed god's test? Or did god give it more than it could handle?

Oh wait, I know! God was "sorting" them to determine if they belong in animal hell or heaven.

What this post is missing is Bible 101--that 'the whole creation is subjected to trauma, death and futility due to sin". It's like you've never read anything Paul or Peter wrote. Ah, c'mon!

Or as naturalists with a natural mindset, we can say the nature of lions is to eat other animals. Protest on behalf of any gazelles lately? But no, you have to complain to god's people when you or other people suffer. Seems inconsistent to me...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-02-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(17-02-2015 11:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  What this post is missing is Bible 101--that 'the whole creation is subjected to trauma, death and futility due to sin".

Shocking

Wha...!

You mean.... because Adam screwed up... That all the eating of Zebra babies is because of that... ?

Geez.... I really didn't think along those lines but, yeah, this god figure is a supreme dick.

I mean, really? The omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent deity creates everything and hence effectively makes Eve then Adam sin and then makes lions eat zebra babies?

Screw that guy!

Much cheers to all.
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17-02-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Is this argument a Gish Gallop
(17-02-2015 11:55 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Really, you didn't guess at this simple truth? It's not ONLY a place of sorting. God could look and see the sin you'd do then put you in Hell, but it is just to allow someone to be punished for things they've done and not merely thought to do. The Bible talks about this concept, how sin feels good for "a time" before the consequences arrive. See a rich fat cat treating his employees with evil intent? Living high on the hog, dining at the finest tables, living for pleasure? His time will come.

Of course I didn't guess that because it makes no sense. There is no sin in heaven (or so I've been told). So, had your god put us there first, there would be no sinning, no need for sorting, no need for Earth, and no need for hell. Your god supposedly knows everything so he knew full well that by not putting us in heaven from the start, some of us would sin enough for him to dismiss those people to hell - a place of eternal, unimaginable torture that he also created. So the only "simple truth" I see is that, if real, your god wants some people to suffer unimaginable torture endlessly and you worship, praise, and proselytize for this tyrant. Dodgy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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