Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
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09-01-2014, 12:18 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
They can threaten me with Hell all they want, as it's just as effective as being threatened by some hippy that they're going to punch me in my aura.

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09-01-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(08-01-2014 04:08 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 03:21 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Is it Freedom of Speech? Yes. Is it protected by your laws? I dunno.

Also, can't speak for every American, but I've never seen a 'You're gonna burn in hell!' placard responsible for violence, but hey, that's just me.

If anyone writes "you are going to burn in hell" it is a threat.

Children and other vulnerable people will read it.

It's unacceptable.

You may be possibly overreacting to this shit. It is a threat..... like threatening a person with a visit from Freddy Kruger, but that's not a problem, except, maybe to people who are emotionally disturbed.
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09-01-2014, 07:15 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(08-01-2014 03:16 AM)PigMonkeyandFrog Wrote:  Today I saw a placard on a bike in the main public square in Melbourne Australia
It did the “embrace Jesus of face HELL type of thing “
I am for freedom of speech
I am against freedom of threat
Under the laws here it does seem this is HATE speech and I rang the city to report this
Making clear that the right to threaten others is not freedom of speech
It also encourages other threats and violence and might explain the level of violence in the USA

It isn't a threat unless he says he'll send you to hell personally. It's a statement of his very twisted beliefs that, through no action of his own, you will go to hell if you don't fall down and worship his zombie lord.

As horribly distasteful as this sort of thing is I'm all for it. Imbeciles like this should be required to wear signs so we can know who the half-wits are and point and laugh. Closet fascists are much more dangerous.
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09-01-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(08-01-2014 04:55 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You are a fucking idiot and it is dickheads like you that prevent Australia from getting a Bill of Rights. You are a crypto-fascist. Clearly you do not value liberty and you don't even have a clue what the purpose of freedom of speech is. The raison d'être of freedom of speech is to protect unpopular opinions. If everyone agreed with everyone else there would be no need for a constitutional freedom of speech.

Also, how the fuck can it be a "threat" when it concerns something that supposedly happens to your "immaterial soul" when you are dead? A threat is a statement of intention that some human person will inflict some sort of violence on you or your property. In what sense is "repent or go to Hell" a "threat"? If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell or original sin how could it represent any sort of threat?

And no it doesn't qualify as "hate speech" in Victoria.[1]

So you've concluded that Americans freedom of speech is the cause of violence? You are fucking idiot.

Lolz.

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09-01-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(08-01-2014 03:16 AM)PigMonkeyandFrog Wrote:  Today I saw a placard on a bike in the main public square in Melbourne Australia
It did the “embrace Jesus of face HELL type of thing “
I am for freedom of speech
I am against freedom of threat
Under the laws here it does seem this is HATE speech and I rang the city to report this
Making clear that the right to threaten others is not freedom of speech
It also encourages other threats and violence and might explain the level of violence in the USA

That's not a threat m8.

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09-01-2014, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 03:58 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(09-01-2014 05:23 AM)Juv Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 04:08 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  If anyone writes "you are going to burn in hell" it is a threat.

Children and other vulnerable people will read it.

It's unacceptable.

You may be possibly overreacting to this shit. It is a threat..... like threatening a person with a visit from Freddy Kruger, but that's not a problem, except, maybe to people who are emotionally disturbed.

I hear you.
Yet the emotionally disturbed don't need or deserve this.
It's not just the emotionally disturbed who are vulnerable...there's also children, the uneducated, the unconfident, those with a poor self esteem, and those who have lower intelligence. That's a large percentage of the population.

Have a look at this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc
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09-01-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(08-01-2014 04:55 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 03:16 AM)PigMonkeyandFrog Wrote:  Today I saw a placard on a bike in the main public square in Melbourne Australia
It did the “embrace Jesus of face HELL type of thing “
I am for freedom of speech
I am against freedom of threat
Under the laws here it does seem this is HATE speech and I rang the city to report this
Making clear that the right to threaten others is not freedom of speech
It also encourages other threats and violence and might explain the level of violence in the USA

You are a fucking idiot and it is dickheads like you that prevent Australia from getting a Bill of Rights. You are a crypto-fascist. Clearly you do not value liberty and you don't even have a clue what the purpose of freedom of speech is. The raison d'être of freedom of speech is to protect unpopular opinions. If everyone agreed with everyone else there would be no need for a constitutional freedom of speech.

Also, how the fuck can it be a "threat" when it concerns something that supposedly happens to your "immaterial soul" when you are dead? A threat is a statement of intention that some human person will inflict some sort of violence on you or your property. In what sense is "repent or go to Hell" a "threat"? If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell or original sin how could it represent any sort of threat?

And no it doesn't qualify as "hate speech" in Victoria.[1]

So you've concluded that Americans freedom of speech is the cause of violence? You are fucking idiot.



Chippie it's incredibly annoying how often you are right.
Grrrrrrrrr

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09-01-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(09-01-2014 03:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I hear you.
Yet the emotionally disturbed don't need or deserve this.
It's not just the emotionally disturbed who are vulnerable...there's also children, the uneducated, the unconfident, those with a poor self esteem, and those who have lower intelligence. That's a large percentage of the population.

Have a look at this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

No I don't think you hear anyone other than your own falsely self-assured voice.

The purpose of a constitutionally protected freedom of speech--as per the USA--is to protect unpopular speech. For this reason alone it is irrelevant how many people an instance of free expression offends or disturbs. The idea--which you seem to have missed--is that a free citizenry ought to be able to say things that offend or disturb other citizens (so long as they aren't defamatory).

But aside from that consideration which is sufficient to defend offensive or disturbing expression one could just as well argue on similarly spurious grounds that atheists ought not to be able to publically state "When you die you are worm food and there is no Heaven". This statement too would disturb your set of "vulnerable" people. "There is no such person as Santa Claus and your parents buy you the gifts" would also disturb many children. There are no boundaries on what could potentially offend or disturb your hypothetical person with "poor self esteem" (sic). This is all just sanctimonious hogwash.

You aren't really concerned with protecting anyone; all you really want to do is to recruit the coercive capacity of the state to silence people that don't share your worldview. That is all. Your hypocrisy is that on the one hand you want to reserve the ability to publically offend and disturb religious people for yourself but desire to deny that reciprocal right to religious people.

It is entirely irrelevant whether Hell does or doesn't exist so your viideo is also irrelevant. It is inconsistent with the ideal of liberty to have a bureacracy deciding what is true and then proscribing public utterances of what it has decided is false. That is what a totalitarian regime does. If you want that then don't just holiday in China, move there permanently.

You are a crypto-fascist.
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09-01-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(09-01-2014 03:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 05:23 AM)Juv Wrote:  You may be possibly overreacting to this shit. It is a threat..... like threatening a person with a visit from Freddy Kruger, but that's not a problem, except, maybe to people who are emotionally disturbed.

I hear you.
Yet the emotionally disturbed don't need or deserve this.
It's not just the emotionally disturbed who are vulnerable...there's also children, the uneducated, the unconfident, those with a poor self esteem, and those who have lower intelligence. That's a large percentage of the population.

Have a look at this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Yabut. What's up with his fucking ear lobes? That's what I wanna know.

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09-01-2014, 09:54 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2014 02:56 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzGVateOWto

The above discussion addresses the heart of the issue, although it doesn't come to any conclusions.

I see it like this. There is a significant percentage of people, both children and adults, who are psychologically scarred by this nonsense. There are no benefits from it, only negatives. It's all about controlling people.

It's hard to know where to draw the line. I believe in free speech. Yet if that speech can be proven to cause serious negative effects on some people, especially children, then the rights to make it publicly must be questioned.

It could be argued that Hitler had the right to make anti Jewish speeches. Yet if someone had reigned him in, 6 million Jews might not have been killed. Once again, the question must be asked where do you draw the line, and that's not an easy question to answer.
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