Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-01-2014, 01:33 AM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2014 01:45 AM by Chippy.)
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(12-01-2014 06:41 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I assume you agree that hellfire ought to not be taught to children?

I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't advise others to do it but that doesn't entail that it should be made illegal or criminal.

Quote: That is a value judgement on my part. The evidence that hellfire is detrimental to mental well being is difficult to produce. I would say commonsense should be employed here. I also think that many opinions of psychologists and doctors should be listened to.

No, public policy shouldn't be based on opinions--not ever. Public policy should--as much as is possible--be evidence-based. Doctors' and psychologists opinions on an empirical matter are worth no more than anyone elses. I will parapahrse you back to yourself: it wasn't too long ago when it was the opinion of doctors that smoking is not harmful.

Quote:If the child's psychological well-being is negatively affected by irrational unproven dogma, should the government step in?

"[P]sychological well-being is negatively affected" is vague and nebulous and not suitable as a bases for considering matters of public policy. Being an inattentive parent can affect psychological well-being in a negative way. Being an overly demanding parent can affect psychological well-being in a negative way.

Quote:If the parents are happy for their child to be taught about hell, does the government have a right to stop it?

No, because it is not illegal to be a "bad parent" and indoctrinating children is only one of many ways to be a "bad parent". And no it is neither practical nor desirable to try and make "bad parenting" illegal.

Quote:Let's think of an analogy. Imagine A group of parents who smoke marijuana allowing a teacher to promote marijuana smoking to children, and in fact providing them with marijuana to smoke in the classroom. Commonsense tells us that marijuana is harmful to children. The children are not old enough to make an informed decision for themselves. Should the state protect the children?

Of course the state should protect the children because it is known that smoking any substance is harmful a fortiori smoking cannabis.

This is a disanalogy because in this case we have lots of data from epidemiological studies and animal models.

Quote:Can you state provide evidence that five year olds smoking marijuana increases the risk of mental disorders later in life? Probably not.

Not specifically for 5-year-olds but for adolescents yes I can present you evidence. The data for adolescents can be generalised to children.

Quote:Now the point you are making, I think, is that the government should not be allowed to legislate on this issue.

Yes because there are no clear criteria nor solid evidence of harm.

Quote:A number of people have made the point that it's only a threat of harm and not harm itself so therefore it should be allowed. I'm not so sure that this issue is purely a threat of harm, I think it is harm.

I disagree, I don't think street preaching represents even a threat. A good parent instructs their children that there are people with all sorts of strange ideas about how the world works and that they feel they need to tell everyone about their strange ideas. Most children will understand that. Those that won't understand that will be a minority and I don't want to base public policy on a minority concern.

Quote:Moving on to the question of teenage suicide amongst gay people, once again commonsense must prevail.

No, this isn't an issue for "commonsense". It is a social scientific concern and it should be understood in terms of research results.

Quote:We know that suicide rates amongst gay teenagers are higher than amongst heterosexual teenagers. There can be little real doubt that that is a consequence of society's homophobic attitude.

There can be real doubt about that. Again, an issue of public policy should be considered in terms of evidence not conjecture.

Quote:So to promote homophobia in schools causes harm. And no I'm not going to search the Internet for a study to prove what is self-evident.

"Homophobia" is also a vague and nebulous term.

There is already legislation to protect sexual minorities against unfair discrimination.

Quote:I know that the sun is going to rise tomorrow morning without finding a study to prove that it has risen every morning for the last 4 billion years. I do value evidence, but I also value my own common sense.

This isn't a matter for your "common sense". If the suicide rate for young homosexuals is higher than that of heterosexuals then research is required to determine the cause.

Quote:You made a comment about someone's dyslexia, implying they were "illiterate" Please explain what you meant, and back it up with evidence.

Not everyone that is illiterate is dyslexic but no one ever volunteers that they are just illiterate. There is no agreement on exactly what dyslexia is and because of that the prevalence estimates vary widely (See Rosen (2006)). According to Marino and Molteni (writing in Rosen (2006); p. 106):

The leading criterion to diagnose dyslexia remains that of a reading performance below the population mean (typically, a reading score 2 standard deviations below the general population mean).

That being the case illiteracy has been effectively defined out of existence. At the very least a diagnosis of dyslexia should be based on nueropsychological testing to discriminate between dyslexia and lack of education or an intellectual deficit. Using only reading ability to diagnose dyslexia will necessarily falsely identify the uneducated and the mentally dull as dyslexics. Hence my comment.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-01-2014, 03:17 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
Thanks Mark for pointing why i was not continuing to write
Chippy I found too aggressive and unpleasant as i am new this place ( i need grow some thicker skin)
I clearly Would not have a person exhibiting that type of aggression in my home or office building.
I hope he is not like that in real life.
As mark I know you are the same here as in real life.
After school my ability to write even a short letter was almost non existent despite going to the most expensive school in my country. Dyslexia was a real part of my life
A part of my questioning people threatening others is due to having a childhood that had threatening behaviour as normal as my difficulties in learning resulted in others treating me as stupid.
As an adult i hope in my real life I stand against bullies and threats
In real life I never threaten people I ask questions learn to care for others.

Necessity being the mother of invention Like may in my situation we create successful solutions
I do often run into other successful people in business with similar stories.
My farther if he was still alive would almost not believe how well I live, it even surprises me.

My past makes me passionate about non violence and question weather the right to threaten others is part of free speech
Christopher Hitchens David Irving was Irving threatening others or just saying something stupid ?
Clearly some people seem to have the right to encourage violence and they seem mostly to be religious leaders.
I wish we had better tools to combat that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes PigMonkeyandFrog's post
13-01-2014, 03:29 AM
RE: Is threatening hell to others freedom of speech
(13-01-2014 03:17 AM)PigMonkeyandFrog Wrote:  As an adult i hope in my real life I stand against bullies and threats
In real life I never threaten people I ask questions learn to care for others.

You are a bully it's only that you seek to have the government do your bullying for you.

Quote:
My past makes me passionate about non violence and question weather the right to threaten others is part of free speech

But you are happy to have the state use violence against those that have a worldview that differs from your own.

Quote:David Irving was Irving threatening others or just saying something stupid ?

He was saying something stupid and he should have been allowed to do so.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: