Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
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28-02-2012, 07:57 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
Armys dont fight for freedom......they fight for profit and power.

If your in the armed forces to ease your conscience you can say "well it was either them or me" but the simple fact remains that if your goverment wasnt fucking invading other countrys to destabilise them then you wouldnt fucking be in that position would you???

Lets try to turn the tables on this...lets say your in your home and foreign troops turn up with the most sophisticated weapons on the planet and tell you to leave because there gonna bomb fuck out of it ......do you think that that is ample enough warning and justified??? Would you just willingly leave everything you know even though you have possibly no way to survive for your kids and your children.

No wonder the west is hated.......ive seen more than enough videos of kids being shot and blown up to last me a lifetime.

FUCK THE ARMY.......FUCK GOVERMENTS.

THEY FIGHT FOR PROFIT AND POWER.........NOT FREEDOM.

WHAT CONTRACTORS ARE "REBUILDING" ALL THE COUNTRYS WE HAVE FUCKED UP.........WESTERN ONES.
[Image: Stacks_of_money.jpg]

This is "god".......this is what you are fighting for.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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28-02-2012, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 08:42 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
Documentary of the Fallujah Massacre

The Fallujah bit starts at 2:45

Warning: disturbing images of the victims start at 8:35
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28-02-2012, 08:45 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
Early 80s........Iraq try to take advantage of Muslim uprising and invades Iran.
Not much outside intervention....hundreds of thousands die in the conflict.

Ceasfire called and Iraq invade Kuwait (big western ally)
Intervention from the west at this point (the first gulf war as some call it)

Saddam stops trading his oil in the petrodollar and moves to the petroeuro......this move will damage the US economy.
Dossier wrote pertaining Saddam has weapons of mass destruction that can hit europe within 45 minutes.......more intervention and the guy who wrote the dossier "Dr David Kelly" dies soon afterwards it is discovered there was no threat.

(second gulf war)

Libya.......Qaddafi is making big moves for the gold Dinar to empower the african nations........backed by something real.......gold.

Western powers dont like this.......they like there worthless paper backed by fuck all too much so they invade.......even though millions of people march to the capital in support of there beloved leader.

Nuff said.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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28-02-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(28-02-2012 05:10 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 02:44 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  ... no one ordered those soldiers to fire phosphorus at women and children.

You were ORDERED to go there in the first place.

It was an extremely unethical order and you had to obey because by volunteering to serve in the military you suspended your own ethical judgment.

I realize you're trying desperately to tie in your own theme, but making it bold and underlining it doesn't make it any more true. I signed up for the army of my own free will, fully expecting to go to Iraq. And when the order came to our unit to deploy, there were several people who didn't deploy because they didn't want to kill, or they were outright scared. You won't hear about this outside the army or in the media, but it happens with every deployment. The company will work out a deal will the soldier, claiming "it's against his religion to kill" or that "the soldier is medically unfit to deploy" and that soldier will stay back and do cleaning and mundane tasks while everyone else deploys. It's called being on Rear D. The only downside is the loss of respect from your fellow soldiers who feel like you abandoned them.

You clearly have an agenda that you're trying to shout across, but you literally don't know what you're talking about. Soldiers reserve the right to disobey, especially when the moral implications of an order are shaky.



Quote:
(28-02-2012 02:44 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  War sucks.

It was NOT a war.

It was an invasion of a country, on the other side of the planet, minding its own business.

Really? Iraq was just hanging out all peaceful? A shining moral example in the Middle East? While they had nothing to do with 9/11, they still were a tortured people under a brutal dictator. He needed to be removed.



Quote:Attacking and invading another country, who has no means to defend herself against you (other than children throwing grenades at you) sucks a hell of a lot more.

And you had to 'defend' yourself against those children by burning them alive with white phosphorus shells that were made conveniently available to you by your army.

Once the invasion was over, we stopped "attacking." All we do now is drive around with the Iraqi army and police and teach them how to patrol. Iraqis may not like our presence, but that doesn't mean you can try to kill us unprovoked and not expect retaliation. You may not have voted for Obama, but that doesn't mean you can try to kill him and get all butt hurt and play the victim when the secret service blows your head off.



Quote:My heart is really bleeding for you. Rolleyes

But that's quite all right because, after all, I am only a bleeding-heart liberal. Big Grin

So far, the only people to support you is your wife and a guy who thinks every conspiracy story ever told is the truth.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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28-02-2012, 02:19 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 02:33 PM by bemore.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(28-02-2012 02:03 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  a guy who thinks every conspiracy story ever told is the truth.

Ha.

I dont believe every conspiracy......I keep tabs on the economy and everything that comes from it.......I thought we were free thinkers on here???

Suppose I was wrong....never mind.

Just keep killing innocents and telling yourself its "justified"

EDIT: Although it is interesting and revealing thats what you think about me Smile

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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28-02-2012, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 05:12 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
I suspended my resolution, for this one thread, not to get involved in totally hopeless arguments with people who are in deep denial about certain aspects of reality, because some others may need to know the truth.

Some agenda, eh? Rolleyes

Now that I have given them some facts and some links to follow, they can find out more if they are interested.

List of Iraq War resisters

Suicide Epidemic Among Veterans

Google is a great help for research.

Buddy dear, you are back in my 'ignore' list.

Sadly, you seem to be more 'handicapped' than I had thought before. You see a few trees around you, but you have no idea what the forest looks like! Sad

I won't see any more of your posts, so relax, and feel free to entertain your friends with your colourful commentary. Big Grin
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28-02-2012, 10:20 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
I would say it is depending on the country you live in. I would personally never consider serving in the US corporate welfare program myself.

(27-02-2012 05:12 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It's important to understand the purpose of the military. No one is going to agree with every order they are given. But you follow that order because the system is designed the way it is for a damn good reason. I don't agree with every Ron Paul policy but easily agree he's the best man for the job. I also don't/didn't agree with every order I was given but I followed it because in the end it's the US Military keepign the world in check. We may not be great at it but without us there would be far worse happenings in this world.

You are seriously obsessed with Ron Paul....Holy shit. I hope you are getting paid.

You didn't even answer the question, you just rambled on about why the chain of command is important. Why is it important? For a damn good reason!!!
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29-02-2012, 12:28 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(28-02-2012 02:19 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 02:03 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  a guy who thinks every conspiracy story ever told is the truth.

Ha.

I dont believe every conspiracy......I keep tabs on the economy and everything that comes from it.......I thought we were free thinkers on here???

Suppose I was wrong....never mind.

Just keep killing innocents and telling yourself its "justified"

EDIT: Although it is interesting and revealing thats what you think about me Smile

Killing innocents? What would you do in that situation genius? Call in an airstrike? Get a platoon of troops to go into a potentially booby trapped building with a IED inside the first floor?

I would rather use a rangefinder + jav to take out the first 3 floors of a building that is hot . I agree with Buddy, accidents happen.

Fuck you and your killing innocents post. Go bitch about the police too since they sometimes make mistakes killing innocents. And go bitch about doctors and their malpractice.

- US Army 35G (Sigtel)
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29-02-2012, 04:22 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 12:28 AM)Monk Wrote:  Fuck you and your killing innocents post.

Spoken like a true 'patriotic' American. Classy to boot! Big Grin

However, the original question of the OP is still not answered.

When you undertake an oath to follow orders (and don't give me that BS that you can pick and choose which), then you will have suspended your own moral judgement, in the service of others whose goals and motivations you know nothing about. The logic is inescapable (regardless how some try to escape it).

It's like giving a blank cheque with your signature on it.

Most people would not want to do that, because, after all, it is money, and money is important!

Morality, on the other hand .... Rolleyes
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29-02-2012, 04:46 AM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 04:50 AM by bemore.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 12:28 AM)Monk Wrote:  Killing innocents? What would you do in that situation genius? Call in an airstrike? Get a platoon of troops to go into a potentially booby trapped building with a IED inside the first floor?

Well I wouldnt get myself in that situation.......if they ever forced enlistment into the army in the UK I would rather go to prison.....or id desert the army and go live off the land somewhere.

The only reason I imagine that there is Improvised Explosives in buildings is to fight back againt the invading army that has entered there country.....think about it for a second.....what would you do in there situation when armed forces with the most sophisticated weapon systems in the world come into your neighbourhood and "accidentally" start killing the people around you....smashing the infrastrucure....destroying the power grid and any fresh water supplies.....changing your peacefull existence into one of a living hell.

You would just stand back and let it happen right??? You wouldnt try and fight back in any way???

(29-02-2012 12:28 AM)Monk Wrote:  Fuck you and your killing innocents post. Go bitch about the police too since they sometimes make mistakes killing innocents. And go bitch about doctors and their malpractice.

No fuck you....... I have family in the armed forces......I know its not just all about killing.....I know that its about building bonds and close relationships with the people around you, gaining skills that might not be available to you on "civvy street"
....giving people the opportunity to travel and see the world.....not every person who joins the army is a cold blooded pyscho killer

Im not fucking stupid. Its just I feel wars are fought for bullshit reasons and when you look into it there is BILLIONS to be made from destroying countrys and then rebuilding them.....and that is whats happening today.

Do you wish for me to list the contractors profiting massivley??? I can if you want to.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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