Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
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29-02-2012, 04:57 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
How come you and that other guy aren't on a UK police forum, bitching about cops killing innocent people? I love the double standards.
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29-02-2012, 05:22 AM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 09:14 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
How do you know we aren't?

However, this thread is about suspending your own morality when you volunteer to serve in the military.

In the police force you can quit any time.

In the army you can't -- even if you have a one-year contract with the army, they can unilaterally extend it arbitrarily (called 'stop-loss' or 'back-door draft) and you are forced to continue suspending your own moral standards -- assuming you had any to start with.

Quote:Stop-loss is a term primarily used in the United States military. In the U.S. military, it is the involuntary extension of a service member's active duty service under the enlistment contract in order to retain them beyond their initial end of term of service (ETS) date and up to their contractually agreed end of obligated service (EOS). It also applies to the cessation of a permanent change of station (PCS) move for a member still in military service. Stop-loss was used immediately before and during the first Persian Gulf War. Since then, it has been used during deployments to Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo and after the September 11 attacks and the subsequent War on Terror. The policy has been legally challenged several times. However, federal courts have consistently found that military service members contractually agree that their term of service may be involuntarily extended until the end of their obligated service.

I LOVE the last bit: "contractually agree that their term of service may be involuntarily extended"

Translation: "contractually agree that their contract can be broken by the army (but NOT by themselves)"

How do you love that beauty? Rolleyes
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29-02-2012, 05:29 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 04:57 AM)Monk Wrote:  How come you and that other guy aren't on a UK police forum, bitching about cops killing innocent people? I love the double standards.

Its like I said......not everybody who joins the armed forces is "evil" pretty much like all people who join the police force......im sure you have ideals and dont wish to kill innocent people......you prob dont wish to kill anybody who knows???

Id be interested to hear you response to how you would deal with things monk If an invading army came to america and smashed your infrastrutcure and your way of life.

Would you just stand back and watch as your life is changed or would you wish to fight back somehow.....even if that meant making IEDs???

Use a bit of empathy for the situation.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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29-02-2012, 12:02 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(28-02-2012 03:34 PM)Zat Wrote:  I suspended my resolution, for this one thread, not to get involved in totally hopeless arguments with people who are in deep denial about certain aspects of reality, because some others may need to know the truth.

Some agenda, eh? Rolleyes

Now that I have given them some facts and some links to follow, they can find out more if they are interested.

List of Iraq War resisters

Suicide Epidemic Among Veterans

Google is a great help for research.

Buddy dear, you are back in my 'ignore' list.

Sadly, you seem to be more 'handicapped' than I had thought before. You see a few trees around you, but you have no idea what the forest looks like! Sad

I won't see any more of your posts, so relax, and feel free to entertain your friends with your colourful commentary. Big Grin

Ah, the "Ignore" list. There is no greater way of knowing you have won than being ignored. The fragile belief system has been rattled and the timid rabbit scurries back to his hole to hide from the world. When putting your hands over your ears and yelling, "I can't hear you, I know I'm right!" just isn't doing it anymore... there's the Ignore list.

And stop posting worthless links. A lot of us on here are veterans. We don't need your webpage about veteran suicides. We are intimately aware of this issue. You insist on preaching to the choir and lecturing people who have been in war... on the details of war.

Oh, but why do I bother?

[Image: deadhorse.gif]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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29-02-2012, 12:33 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 12:02 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Ah, the "Ignore" list. There is no greater way of knowing you have won than being ignored. The fragile belief system has been rattled and the timid rabbit scurries back to his hole to hide from the world. When putting your hands over your ears and yelling, "I can't hear you, I know I'm right!" just isn't doing it anymore... there's the Ignore list.

And stop posting worthless links. A lot of us on here are veterans. We don't need your webpage about veteran suicides. We are intimately aware of this issue. You insist on preaching to the choir and lecturing people who have been in war... on the details of war.

Oh, but why do I bother?

Monk ignored my question........maybe you would care to answer it Buddy (BTW I have to apologise for my comment on "justified killing of innocents"......differences of opinion doesnt have to mean nastyness)

What do you think you would do if say China invaded america and they had much superior weaponry than your army.

Would you stand back and let your country get destroyed or would you fight back somehow by making IEDs and such???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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29-02-2012, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 03:17 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 12:33 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 12:02 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Ah, the "Ignore" list. There is no greater way of knowing you have won than being ignored. The fragile belief system has been rattled and the timid rabbit scurries back to his hole to hide from the world. When putting your hands over your ears and yelling, "I can't hear you, I know I'm right!" just isn't doing it anymore... there's the Ignore list.

And stop posting worthless links. A lot of us on here are veterans. We don't need your webpage about veteran suicides. We are intimately aware of this issue. You insist on preaching to the choir and lecturing people who have been in war... on the details of war.

Oh, but why do I bother?

Monk ignored my question........maybe you would care to answer it Buddy (BTW I have to apologise for my comment on "justified killing of innocents"......differences of opinion doesnt have to mean nastyness)

What do you think you would do if say China invaded america and they had much superior weaponry than your army.

Would you stand back and let your country get destroyed or would you fight back somehow by making IEDs and such???


Well first, we aren't tearing down power lines and disrupting water supplies. We are doing the exact opposite. We regularly go door to door handing out water and water filters for the terrible water they currently have. Another regular task we do is to visit the power station and keep it running fairly. The owners tend to be bought off by the corrupt to only give power to certain grids, so we have to constantly stop by and lay the pressure on them.

And as far as China invading, I assume it would be analogous to the British and the Revolutionary War. Of course I would resist the invading force. But as soon as my actions go from "opposed" to "kill the enemy" I am no longer an "innocent." There are other ways to make my defiance felt than to rig buildings to take human lives.

Once I make that decision to take the life of another human being, especially for something as arbitrary as "land ownership," I am just as much to blame as the "innocent killing" invaders.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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01-03-2012, 07:10 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 07:31 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(29-02-2012 12:33 PM)bemore Wrote:  Monk ignored my question........

Of course he did.

The simplest things in life are the hardest to understand.

Take a look at an interview with a career soldier: IF THEY CALLED A WAR AND NOBODY CAME: THE MILITARY PROJECT

Quote:Sanborn: Fabian, what made you decide to speak out against war? Was there a turning point when you realized you just couldn’t do it anymore?

Fabian: There wasn’t one specific event. After 9/11, I was still at the academy, and there I heard a lot of talk about “we gotta kill whoever did this; we gotta get them back.” I felt that we needed to be cautious about getting into a war when the facts weren’t in yet.

When the “Mission Accomplished” stunt happened, I knew it was B.S., and I thought it was extremely arrogant.

After a while, it dawned on me that we were all betrayed, and I use the word “betrayed” purposefully. We had joined the military to do good and to defend our country, but our leaders’ motivations were immoral and illegal. We were betrayed, and it hurts.

It's worth reading the whole interview with interestink links in it for further research.
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01-03-2012, 08:14 AM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
This isn't about ethics, it's about your anti-war stuff. If you 2 nutcases think you have all of life's problems figured out, please run for political office, or join the military, or the peace corps.

Not going to respond to anymore jibber jabber.
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01-03-2012, 08:33 AM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 09:11 AM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
Overwhelming evidence contrary to one's deeply held beliefs can be countered only with closed minds.

It happens in religion as it happens in politics.

Closed minds can only be opened by extreme shock of a fundamentally personal nature -- it may still come to you, Monk, in the future.

Remember this line when, and if, it happens. Sad
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01-03-2012, 12:33 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 08:33 AM)Zat Wrote:  Overwhelming evidence contrary to one's deeply held beliefs can be countered only with closed minds.

(01-03-2012 08:33 AM)Zat Wrote:  Buddy dear, you are back in my 'ignore' list.




[Image: 1232550426_worf%20face%20palm.gif]

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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