Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
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01-03-2012, 12:43 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 08:14 AM)Monk Wrote:  This isn't about ethics, it's about your anti-war stuff. If you 2 nutcases think you have all of life's problems figured out, please run for political office, or join the military, or the peace corps.

Not going to respond to anymore jibber jabber.

At the end of the day Monk ive just given my opinion......so has Zat....if that makes us nutcases then the emphasis is obviously on you.... oh wise one.... to advise on what is best.

There just words on a screen man.....chill out.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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01-03-2012, 12:45 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
Don't know if this has been addressed yet (I skimmed through the posts), but Zat I understand your point of view. That being said, I agree with BC.

Zat, you're assuming that the entire world is utopic... that, if the US didn't have a military then no one else would and then everyone would be nice to each other.

Your original question is whether or not joining the military can be deem unethical. You support this with the claim of children and civilians dying as well as inhumane weaponry. From a short-viewed perspective this is understandable; however, let's take a step back and look at the whole picture.

If the US military didn't do what it did, would the world better? Would the innocent civilians (as a whole) be better off? I would answer "no". The dictators that we've eliminated destroy homes, lives, and people for their own power.

Yes, there will be collateral damage during war, but the big picture is more important than the smaller one. Peoples as a whole are more important than individuals when you deal with countries and freedoms.

Of course, this is just my take on it.

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01-03-2012, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 01:02 PM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
KC, I was talking about INDIVIDUAL ethical choices. The one that is between you and your conscience (or god if you have one).

I was NOT talking about saving/changing the world by one man's actions.

I was talking about the individual who has to live with the consequences of his individual choices and actions.

Many don't care and say: "So what's your problem?" or "War sucks!".

Many others do have ethical consciences and defect, protest or even commit suicide.

I thought that you, of all people, would understand it.
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01-03-2012, 01:05 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 12:55 PM)Zat Wrote:  KC, I was talking about INDIVIDUAL ethical choices. The one that is between you and your conscience (or god if you have one).

I was NOT talking about saving/changing the world by one man's actions.

I was talking about the individual who has to live with the consequences of his actions.

Many don't care and say: "So what's your problem?" or "War sucks!".

Many others do have ethical consciences and defect, protest or even commit suicide.

I thought that you, of all people, would understand it.

Zat... I notice that you usually lace your comments with fallacies. The bolded.

Secondly, when you are a part of unit that functions as a whole, your personal convictions and code of ethics is second to the unit's. Equating personal ethics to a unit's ethics is apples to oranges.

You are essentially saying that if a person chooses to become a US citizen and is pro-life, then he is violating his own ethics because he is becoming part of a unit that is pro-choice.

Individual ethics and morals are in no way related to a unit's. The unit functions separately of individuals but is made of the individuals and has it's own moral and ethical code.

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01-03-2012, 01:06 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 12:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If the US military didn't do what it did, would the world better? Would the innocent civilians (as a whole) be better off? I would answer "no". The dictators that we've eliminated destroy homes, lives, and people for their own power.

Thing is KC the west seems to pick and choose who they attack/help.....theres plenty going off in other countrys and I dont see them getting invaded.

If the main exports of the middle east were potatoes......I very much doubt that the west would be very bothered about them.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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01-03-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 01:06 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If the US military didn't do what it did, would the world better? Would the innocent civilians (as a whole) be better off? I would answer "no". The dictators that we've eliminated destroy homes, lives, and people for their own power.

Thing is KC the west seems to pick and choose who they attack/help.....theres plenty going off in other countrys and I dont see them getting invaded.

If the main exports of the middle east were potatoes......I very much doubt that the west would be very bothered about them.

I agree with this. Wholly. But I also think that despite the oil, we do do some good over there.

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01-03-2012, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 01:14 PM by Zat.)
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 01:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The unit functions separately of individuals but is made of the individuals and has it's own moral and ethical code.

That is precisely the point I expressed in the thread title and the OP.

I even used the word 'potential', indicating that it is not necessarily so.

However, you just explained to me what I have been saying all through this thread:

"you abdicate your personal responsibility and morality when you sign a blank cheque (volunteer) to the government, to obey orders, REGARDLESS how unethical those orders are.

Thank you for confirming my main point.

If people did not do this -- no war would be possible.
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01-03-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 01:08 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I agree with this. Wholly. But I also think that despite the oil, we do do some good over there.

Yeah I cant disagree with that.....its TPTB that make the decisions....by the sound of what Buddy said with regards to the powerstations I do believe that he has the best intentions.

Ive got nothing against the soldiers.....its the system that im against.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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01-03-2012, 01:15 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 01:10 PM)Zat Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 01:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  The unit functions separately of individuals but is made of the individuals and has it's own moral and ethical code.

That is precisely the point I expressed in the thread title and the OP.

I even used the word 'potential', indicating that it is not necessarily so.

However, you just explained to me what I have been saying all through this thread:

"you abdicate your personal responsibility and morality when you sign a blank cheque (volunteer) to the government, to obey orders, REGARDLESS what those orders are.

Thank you for confirming my main point.

If people did not do this -- no war would be possible.

Potentially? Yes. Nothing is ever 100%.
Likely? No. As a whole, unethical decisions by a CO that affect lives are not common.

But, since you avoided absolutism, I guess technically you are right. Your over generalizations are wrong, but you are right within the confines of "potentially".

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01-03-2012, 01:20 PM
RE: Is volunteering for the military a potentially unethical decision?
(01-03-2012 12:45 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, there will be collateral damage during war, but the big picture is more important than the smaller one.

KC, I see that your god allows you to profess the age old lie: "the end justifies the means" and has no problem with killing and mass murder.

But the christian religion was never too shy to use the sword for its own ends, was it? Rolleyes
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