Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
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30-05-2011, 01:08 AM
 
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
While I can agree that Islam is wrong, I would have to say that the majority of Muslims are simply not dogmatic enough to follow the Qur'an to the fullest, or, like 99% of Christians I know who up and refuse to stone me for being gay, are too lazy. This is actually good ammo against one during a debate, because you can bring up the fact that they are directly ignoring the teachings of their book by not stoning you on the spot. Or, even better, bring it up when they try to argue that Atheists have no morals by asking, again, why they are ignoring the obviously superior morals of the Qur'an
I actually was engaged in an internet argument with a Muslim a few days ago. It's quite lengthy, and I wouldn't want to inflate the page, so I will host it on pastebin instead.
Warning: I am pretty vulgar in this, so NSFW
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30-05-2011, 09:47 AM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2011 10:40 AM by gaglamesh731.)
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
(29-05-2011 10:38 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  gaglamesh, look up halal slaughter - its absolutely vile. The meat in the can came from an animal which had the most that people could possibly do to make it suffer done to it.

Both Halal and Kosher kill the animal by cutting the throat. Death is more or less swift. And most EU countries enforce stunning before hand.

Also take a look how pigs are killed in my country at Christmas :
WARNING - GRAPHIC
http://www.leafpile.com/TravelLog/Romani...ig/Pig.htm

Compared to that , halal is merciful.Confused

OH , btw , I'll invite BD to this forum , maybe she's clarify her point of view - I mean let's hear it from the horse's mouth....

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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30-05-2011, 09:52 PM
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
(30-05-2011 09:47 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 10:38 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  gaglamesh, look up halal slaughter - its absolutely vile. The meat in the can came from an animal which had the most that people could possibly do to make it suffer done to it.

Both Halal and Kosher kill the animal by cutting the throat. Death is more or less swift. And most EU countries enforce stunning before hand.

Also take a look how pigs are killed in my country at Christmas :
WARNING - GRAPHIC
http://www.leafpile.com/TravelLog/Romani...ig/Pig.htm

Compared to that , halal is merciful.Confused

OH , btw , I'll invite BD to this forum , maybe she's clarify her point of view - I mean let's hear it from the horse's mouth....

That's kinda humane when compared to skewering piglets alive like people do here.

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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30-05-2011, 10:14 PM
 
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
(29-05-2011 03:50 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  "Else, BD would know how to pronounce it. " - seriously , you can't accuse her of not knowing anything about it for not being able to pronounce it .
Well , why can't she do both ? Promote religious moderates rather than accuse everybody of being a fanatic and show support for the LGBT community ?
As for Tf00t - great scientist but lousy on social issues - however he did get threats so I can't blame him.

Firstly, thank you for the links. I just found your reply so when I have more time than near midnight as it is now, I'll take a look. Smile

And I can make the observation she doesn't know the website or what she's talking about when she recommends it, because how to pronounce it's name is front and center, because it includes a pronunciation key.

If I knew someone who had a website and I believed in it's message enough to recommend it as a fair forum for, in this case, information on moderate Islam, I'd certainly know the sites name. It's a matter of respect. And most especially if my friend had included a pronunciation key on the homepage of her site, just for that purpose.
As it stands, what BionicDance sounds like she's doing is promoting the Irshad project, Project Ijtihad, phonetically . Which, when reading the name of the project itself does seem unpronounceable. But not when there is a pronunciation key right there below the project's main picture. And by the by, BionicDance was wrong yet again about the matter, which further impresses she doesn't really know the site, because the site is not called Project Ijtihad. The website is named after her alleged friend, who is promoting Project Ijtihad on her website.

Besides all that, it isn't really important is it? Who cares if some chic calling herself BionicDance thinks that website is great because a fellow Lesbian owns it?
Who cares that BD lends the impression she knows nothing about the site? It's her video, it's my personal opinion arrived at after observing what she produced for You Tube.
Now that the information is out there people can look at Project Ijtihad, and Irshad's work and judge for themselves the merit after being at least directed for a look, by BD.
And, I don't know BionicDance or any other of her videos. I'll accept your word about TFoot's advice to her. Smile



Quote: Condell on the other hand - just plain NO - the guy is a walking conspiracy theory to Muslims and most of the times the very links that he cites as sources debunk him.
It's been awhile since I saw Condell's work on YT. I think I've watched two of his video's wherein he addresses radical Islam. One was the Geert Wilders issue and another I can't recall.
I know he's cited as a source by a man on You Tube who promotes his work as, "Kafir and Proud". I've not researched Condell's detractors so as to know who debunks his material. So I'll accept your opinion about his walking conspiracy profile however, I've not done the research so as to know if I'd agree.



(30-05-2011 09:47 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 10:38 PM)daemonowner Wrote:  gaglamesh, look up halal slaughter - its absolutely vile. The meat in the can came from an animal which had the most that people could possibly do to make it suffer done to it.

Both Halal and Kosher kill the animal by cutting the throat. Death is more or less swift. And most EU countries enforce stunning before hand.

Also take a look how pigs are killed in my country at Christmas :
WARNING - GRAPHIC
http://www.leafpile.com/TravelLog/Romani...ig/Pig.htm

Compared to that , halal is merciful.Confused
Thank you for the graphic warning. I can't watch that, so I didn't even click knowing what awaits. Sad
I think if I had to kill my own food I'd either be vegan or I'd graze grass and find a new and nifty way to make mowed lawns tasty. Tongue
I step over ants on the sidewalk, for eclair sake.

Quote: OH , btw , I'll invite BD to this forum , maybe she's clarify her point of view - I mean let's hear it from the horse's mouth....
Oh hell, we heard it from the horses mouth when she made a video.
The matter of her appearing not to know the website she referenced isn't that much of an issue. I made the observation, she's not going to change the facts of her personal horses mouth presentation. What's she going to do, come here and save face? Impossible! She doesn't know how to pronounce what's afforded in a pronunciation key? She made a video where she's not even accurate when she refers to her "friends" website, the name of which she claims is almost unpronounceable, when that friends website is named after her alleged friend and in truth it's her friends project that BD deems is almost unpronounceable! When there's a pronunciation key one can't miss on the homepage?

What is she going to clarify? That there are moderate Muslims in the world? That video's denouncing radical Islam, aren't the only video's out there addressing Islam, because not every Muslim is radical?
I know that. Most reasonable people do. Someone who claims to condemn those who imply or say outright that all of Islam is radical would do a better job if in promoting a moderate example, demonstrated they know what they're talking about first!
That's what she clarified she's in deficit of in her own production. Coming here isn't going to edit the truth of that. How many views does her video have now? Horses mouth is going to be busy, making up for what is.
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31-05-2011, 11:45 AM
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
@Gassy
Look , I mean no disrespect but it just seems a leap. Just because you don't know how to pronounce the name of something doesn't mean you are clueless. I mean we don't have spell checks and she may have just omitted it. Maybe it was a rushed vid or something that;s why I wanted to see what she had to say about it. Doesn;t it seem reasonable to assume we all make mistake now and again. That's my opinion , that's all . I agree with the "do more research" part but I don't get the leap from "pronounce something" to "know something".

As for Condell , his early vids are ok , but he does jump the gun on muslims recently. And to be honest I can't go along. He does support women's rights , spoke out against anti-semitism and slaughter of animals by religious methods. But with radical islam he's jumping the gun a bit. I fear that if we push on moderates , the radicals will be pulling on their end. Sad

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

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31-05-2011, 12:28 PM
 
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
Islam isn't any more evil than Christianity, it simply has less followers. Christians were doing the same foul sh!t when they were determined to spread their propaganda worldwide.
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31-05-2011, 05:25 PM
 
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
(31-05-2011 11:45 AM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  @Gassy
Look , I mean no disrespect but it just seems a leap. Just because you don't know how to pronounce the name of something doesn't mean you are clueless. I mean we don't have spell checks and she may have just omitted it. Maybe it was a rushed vid or something that;s why I wanted to see what she had to say about it. Doesn;t it seem reasonable to assume we all make mistake now and again. That's my opinion , that's all . I agree with the "do more research" part but I don't get the leap from "pronounce something" to "know something".

I guess I didn't make myself clear. (washes window Tongue) I'll make it simple because I can talk pages and apparently say nothing.
Advising the seeker to find reasonable resources to learn about moderate Muslims, and thereby learn that not all Muslims are radicals as some YT producers may imply in their projects, is fine.
Advising the seeker to find reasonable resources, when the adviser does not know the proper name of the site they're recommending, nor do they know the proper name of the project committed to educating ignorance as to what moderate Islam is, is not the proper way to direct seekers to reasonable resources.

When someone does not know the difference between the name of the website their alleged friend operates, when said website is named after that alleged friend, and instead calls the website by the project name that website promotes for the cause of educating the public about Moderate Islam, they make a very weak impression in claiming to know what they're talking about, when everything they said about it is wrong.

Hope that helps. Smile

Quote:As for Condell , his early vids are ok , but he does jump the gun on muslims recently. And to be honest I can't go along. He does support women's rights , spoke out against anti-semitism and slaughter of animals by religious methods. But with radical islam he's jumping the gun a bit. I fear that if we push on moderates , the radicals will be pulling on their end. Sad
I don't think anyone can make someone who isn't already willing and able, to be a radical. Given the headlines attributed to what the stories relate in radical Islam's campaigns across the globe, someone who supports that as a Muslim validate for their own self who they are, what they are willing to become and sacrifice for the cause and then justify it by sura in the Koran.
One has to choose to be a terrorist radical Muslim. I don't think opinionated people, who may tend to lump all Muslims under one banner as Radicals, are going to inspire those who are not Radical to fit the mold ignorance by a non- Muslim created by word alone. If they're that easily led, then they're following the Infidels and disavowing what they formerly honored as their role in Islam.

I could be wrong. However, I don't think speaking against radical Islam, even when there are people who make a broad brush indictment of all Muslims in saying they're all radicals, should ever be that cause what stops *any video or project production condemning radicalism just because we're afraid moderate Muslims may get pissed and join the terrorists in reprisal.
Fear is a common ingredient in terrorism as it is.


*edit for missing phrase so as to afford clarity* Yeah, I'm big on clarity. [Image: 15.gif]
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01-06-2011, 04:31 AM
RE: Islam is just wrong, not evil - BionicDance
Quote:Advising the seeker to find reasonable resources to learn about moderate Muslims, and thereby learn that not all Muslims are radicals as some YT producers may imply in their projects, is fine.
Advising the seeker to find reasonable resources, when the adviser does not know the proper name of the site they're recommending, nor do they know the proper name of the project committed to educating ignorance as to what moderate Islam is, is not the proper way to direct seekers to reasonable resources.

You should have started with this. Yes I agree , it does leave a poor impression.

True , but that's my problem. If a radical says : "Join us , the west is evil" a moderate may laugh. If he gets the Islam is evil and Muslims should be deported speech , and gets attacked or harassed he may just start listening to radicals. It doesn't make him a terrorist , but it makes us loose a moderate and decent person to extremism. And it's the moderate and reformed people that will cast away the darkness of religious fundamentalism. The more decent people , the more chance for a country to become secular , respect all religions equally , and allow people to progress. And finally rob the greedy power hungry bastards that use faith to manipulate millions ...

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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