Islam vs Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-09-2012, 04:55 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(09-09-2012 05:09 PM)Ghost Wrote:  We're free thinkers, not demagogues. We rely on fact, not emotional arguments.

I wish that were true. Even though emotional appeals aren't technically fallacious, I still think they make for weak arguments. But we still see them here and there, usually in the form of anger rather than appeals to pity or emotional blackmail.

Good statement, though. I understand that you mean "we should be" when you say "we are", and I totally agree.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Starcrash's post
11-09-2012, 05:01 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(09-09-2012 11:51 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  You talking about irrationality, but you dont see that we humans are allways acting irrational.
That is by fare our greates weakness and also our greatest advantage.

...

To overcome the fear you need an other irrational emotion, called courage... you know, the condition in which you can feel the power to win against all reason.

Even though "we humans are" irrational, we don't have to be -- and I think it's just a weakness and not an advantage. Do you have an argument in support of this idea?

Another way to overcome an irrational emotion is to recognize the irrationality. I'm personally not a very emotional person, and I suspect this is why... even when 9/11 was still very recent, I recognized that car accidents kill many more people every year than terrorism, and I don't cry over the victims of car accidents. Rationality can give you perspective, in much the same way that Ghost's figures about the rarity of apostasy killings do.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2012, 05:28 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2012 05:32 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 05:01 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(09-09-2012 11:51 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  You talking about irrationality, but you dont see that we humans are allways acting irrational.
That is by fare our greates weakness and also our greatest advantage.

...

To overcome the fear you need an other irrational emotion, called courage... you know, the condition in which you can feel the power to win against all reason.

Even though "we humans are" irrational, we don't have to be -- and I think it's just a weakness and not an advantage. Do you have an argument in support of this idea?

Another way to overcome an irrational emotion is to recognize the irrationality. I'm personally not a very emotional person, and I suspect this is why... even when 9/11 was still very recent, I recognized that car accidents kill many more people every year than terrorism, and I don't cry over the victims of car accidents. Rationality can give you perspective, in much the same way that Ghost's figures about the rarity of apostasy killings do.


I also provided evidence to the contrary. Where as Ghost failed to provide any external links.

Saudi beheads four citizens over murders-for apostasy death penalty
http://www.trinityafer.com/en/index.php/...th-penalty

Tunisian Muslims Behead an Apostate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFzlh0QxnxY

Teenage Girl Tortured and Shot Dead for Leaving Islam – by Her Parents
http://undhimmi.com/2010/12/04/teenage-g...r-parents/

Muslims kidnap Christian convert from Islam, behead him, then dump his headless corpse on the street.
http://www.bosnewslife.com/18209-somalia...-beheading

Mother of 4 suffers a slow death as she is dragged out of her home in front of villagers and has her throat slit by Qur'an-waving Islamists for converting to Christianity
http://www.aina.org/news/20110119204936....2011-09-19

Christian convert from Islam killed in soccer stadium because his apostasy "insulted the prophet". The execution was attended by hundreds of people, including school children who were forced to watch
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10070036.htm

Christian convert shot and forced to pay US$266 by a camp “court” for his conversion "dishonoring Islam". Muslim gangs raping and killing converts, denying them access to water and burning their homes
http://www.crosswalk.com/11596821/

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2012, 05:55 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
Anyways the point of the thread was supposed to bring light or to bring attention to the idea that we spend too much time on christianity. Right now islam is in the same state of mind christianity was during the crusades/inquisition, and possibly tearing into it will be a good thing.

I think we should spend some time on islam. Tearing it apart and maybe hearing some new argument from another religion.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2012, 06:02 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
"... the statement, "the penalty for apostasy is death," seems grossly misleading..."

I have tested this one in a few officially muslim countries and no one so far has tried to deny it. I'm expecting someone one day to counter this with something like "and the bible says that the penalty for homosexuality is death"...

And that's the point. The "good" books do say these things but rarely is it carried out. In fact never, in countries where secular values and democracy have proved to be beneficial.

The OP vids show that the zeitgeist is changing and as access to the internet increases it will change further.

Thanks for posting them.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
11-09-2012, 06:21 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 06:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  "... the statement, "the penalty for apostasy is death," seems grossly misleading..."

I have tested this one in a few officially muslim countries and no one so far has tried to deny it. I'm expecting someone one day to counter this with something like "and the bible says that the penalty for homosexuality is death"...

And that's the point. The "good" books do say these things but rarely is it carried out. In fact never, in countries where secular values and democracy have proved to be beneficial.

The OP vids show that the zeitgeist is changing and as access to the internet increases it will change further.

Thanks for posting them.

You guys are correct, I am incorrect. Just making a mountain out of a molehill. Silly me. Islam really is peaceful. A few bad eggs spoil the bunch I guess.

[Image: walking-away-meme-generator-walking-away...379140.jpg]

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes fstratzero's post
11-09-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 06:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  "... the statement, "the penalty for apostasy is death," seems grossly misleading..."

I have tested this one in a few officially muslim countries and no one so far has tried to deny it. I'm expecting someone one day to counter this with something like "and the bible says that the penalty for homosexuality is death"...

And that's the point. The "good" books do say these things but rarely is it carried out. In fact never, in countries where secular values and democracy have proved to be beneficial.

The OP vids show that the zeitgeist is changing and as access to the internet increases it will change further.

Thanks for posting them.

I don't think the Taliban is paying attention to the zeitgeist. Just sayin'.Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 05:01 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Even though "we humans are" irrational, we don't have to be -- and I think it's just a weakness and not an advantage. Do you have an argument in support of this idea?

Dear Starcrash,

to make sure, that everyone knows what i mean by irrational behavior i provide you the opposite of it, which is the rational behavior.(No big deal, i know)
That the two termes i deal with.

To answere your question, i like to ask you, is love a rational behavior?
Is dancing a rational thing to do?
Why i am sitting hour and hours in front of an canvas and paint a picture with brush and oilpaint? Is this rational behavior?
Why we like to eat a steak, instead eating a nutriment-supplement that have the same nutritional value, without the health-problems?

I think the rational behavior is aktually the exeption from the rule.
The rational behavior is active, when you solve a logical-problem, or in standard situation like made a plan for the day.
I think being rational means doing the boring stuff.
But suddenly, in the middel of a meeting, you see outsite the window a cloude creates a face and change to a car.
In this moment you show irrational behavior.
You play like a child, imaging things, behave not rational.
Irrational behavior is aktual a positiv force, because she is caotic and creativ.
Without that site of our self, we would be humorless maschines.
I think to be irrational is a advantage, because of music, art, lust and all the fun-stuff.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Marco Krieger's post
11-09-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
Pakistan 'blasphemy' family tell of fire threat
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-19564705

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-09-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 02:26 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 05:01 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Even though "we humans are" irrational, we don't have to be -- and I think it's just a weakness and not an advantage. Do you have an argument in support of this idea?

Dear Starcrash,

...

To answere your question, i like to ask you, is love a rational behavior?
Is dancing a rational thing to do?
Why i am sitting hour and hours in front of an canvas and paint a picture with brush and oilpaint? Is this rational behavior?
Why we like to eat a steak, instead eating a nutriment-supplement that have the same nutritional value, without the health-problems?

1. Yes. Love is an evolutionary advantage in which we sacrifice ourselves for the good of passing on our genes, so we usually love the people involved in that process. Sometimes it even helps us to protect our society which protects our genes. It's very rational behavior.

2. Dancing makes people happy and it's good exercise. I don't even understand why you would consider this activity irrational.

3. Painting can bring in money, or produce something that brings about happiness. If it didn't bring your money or make you happy (like it wouldn't for me, because I'm a bad artist), then you probably wouldn't paint (like I don't).

4. This is actually answered very nicely by a YouTube video. Enjoy.





Quote:I think the rational behavior is aktually the exeption from the rule.

I agree, but that answers "why we're irrational" rather than the question I posed, which is "why should we be irrational". All of this that you've written has done nothing to answer why irrationality is better than rationality. Even if I accepted the premises that the above examples were irrational, it still wouldn't do anything to prove that they are more beneficial to us that the rational alternatives.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: