Islam vs Atheism
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12-09-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(11-09-2012 05:28 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 05:01 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Even though "we humans are" irrational, we don't have to be -- and I think it's just a weakness and not an advantage. Do you have an argument in support of this idea?

Another way to overcome an irrational emotion is to recognize the irrationality. I'm personally not a very emotional person, and I suspect this is why... even when 9/11 was still very recent, I recognized that car accidents kill many more people every year than terrorism, and I don't cry over the victims of car accidents. Rationality can give you perspective, in much the same way that Ghost's figures about the rarity of apostasy killings do.


I also provided evidence to the contrary. Where as Ghost failed to provide any external links.

Saudi beheads four citizens over murders-for apostasy death penalty
http://www.trinityafer.com/en/index.php/...th-penalty

Tunisian Muslims Behead an Apostate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFzlh0QxnxY

Teenage Girl Tortured and Shot Dead for Leaving Islam – by Her Parents
http://undhimmi.com/2010/12/04/teenage-g...r-parents/

Muslims kidnap Christian convert from Islam, behead him, then dump his headless corpse on the street.
http://www.bosnewslife.com/18209-somalia...-beheading

Mother of 4 suffers a slow death as she is dragged out of her home in front of villagers and has her throat slit by Qur'an-waving Islamists for converting to Christianity
http://www.aina.org/news/20110119204936....2011-09-19

Christian convert from Islam killed in soccer stadium because his apostasy "insulted the prophet". The execution was attended by hundreds of people, including school children who were forced to watch
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10070036.htm

Christian convert shot and forced to pay US$266 by a camp “court” for his conversion "dishonoring Islam". Muslim gangs raping and killing converts, denying them access to water and burning their homes
http://www.crosswalk.com/11596821/

You're attacking a strawman. Ghost and I weren't pointing out that these things don't happen, but that they happen rarely. The examples you provide don't change the fact that they are out of context. Even though you're being sarcastic, I agree that you're making a mountain out of a molehill. How does the frequency of such deaths compare with deaths by lightning strike, or for that matter, something as improbable as winning the lottery?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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12-09-2012, 05:14 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 04:41 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  How does the frequency of such deaths compare with deaths by lightning strike, or for that matter, something as improbable as winning the lottery?

Dear starcrash,

now you lost me, complet!

How many people have to die from the hand of religios fanatics, befor its enough?
I have a problem with one death man/woman, regardeless which site.
One counts!
What do you do is not PC, its arrogant and inhuman, you spit in the victims face.
Your analogie to the deaths of people, murdert for nothing is so embarrassing,
i have no words for that.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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12-09-2012, 05:52 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 04:37 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  1. Yes. Love is an evolutionary advantage in which we sacrifice ourselves for the good of passing on our genes, so we usually love the people involved in that process. Sometimes it even helps us to protect our society which protects our genes. It's very rational behavior.

2. Dancing makes people happy and it's good exercise. I don't even understand why you would consider this activity irrational.

3. Painting can bring in money, or produce something that brings about happiness. If it didn't bring your money or make you happy (like it wouldn't for me, because I'm a bad artist), then you probably wouldn't paint (like I don't).

Dear Starcrash,

1. Homoseyuality is not love? Loving pet's is sometimes a gene-trapp.
The love between man and cars is allso not very productiv, not in your sence.

2. Who are you, Turnvater Jahn, John Harvey Kellogg?
Dancing makes people happy! How old are you, 5 years?
Dancing is an ritual in the first place.
Its a ritual to gain contact to spirits and ghosts, you express your thoughts to
them, you pray for rain and ritch crops. Its the irrational attempt to be in
relationship with a superior being.

3. Maybe you should shut down your Insite-Spock sometimes. You sound like a
computer.
I paint my pictures not for sale, i paint to feel the textures and colors, to smell
the paint, to hear the brush on the canvas.
The result is not important, its the time you spend without a definde goal, a kind
of meditation.

4. I quit the number 4, because its a stupit example and number, i want to sleep.

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12-09-2012, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2012 06:20 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 04:41 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(11-09-2012 05:28 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  I also provided evidence to the contrary. Where as Ghost failed to provide any external links.

Saudi beheads four citizens over murders-for apostasy death penalty
http://www.trinityafer.com/en/index.php/...th-penalty

Tunisian Muslims Behead an Apostate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFzlh0QxnxY

Teenage Girl Tortured and Shot Dead for Leaving Islam – by Her Parents
http://undhimmi.com/2010/12/04/teenage-g...r-parents/

Muslims kidnap Christian convert from Islam, behead him, then dump his headless corpse on the street.
http://www.bosnewslife.com/18209-somalia...-beheading

Mother of 4 suffers a slow death as she is dragged out of her home in front of villagers and has her throat slit by Qur'an-waving Islamists for converting to Christianity
http://www.aina.org/news/20110119204936....2011-09-19

Christian convert from Islam killed in soccer stadium because his apostasy "insulted the prophet". The execution was attended by hundreds of people, including school children who were forced to watch
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2010/s10070036.htm

Christian convert shot and forced to pay US$266 by a camp “court” for his conversion "dishonoring Islam". Muslim gangs raping and killing converts, denying them access to water and burning their homes
http://www.crosswalk.com/11596821/

You're attacking a strawman. Ghost and I weren't pointing out that these things don't happen, but that they happen rarely. The examples you provide don't change the fact that they are out of context. Even though you're being sarcastic, I agree that you're making a mountain out of a molehill. How does the frequency of such deaths compare with deaths by lightning strike, or for that matter, something as improbable as winning the lottery?

Strawman?
Really?

Your argument was that it doesn't happen often. So I provided links showing it does happen, with more frequency than Ghost's unsupported claim that there was "only one documented case"

Now since the one supported case is proven wrong you are moving the goal post.

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12-09-2012, 10:06 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 05:14 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 04:41 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  How does the frequency of such deaths compare with deaths by lightning strike, or for that matter, something as improbable as winning the lottery?

Dear starcrash,

now you lost me, complet!

How many people have to die from the hand of religios fanatics, befor its enough?
I have a problem with one death man/woman, regardeless which site.
One counts!
What do you do is not PC, its arrogant and inhuman, you spit in the victims face.
Your analogie to the deaths of people, murdert for nothing is so embarrassing,
i have no words for that.

I made no attempt to be PC... why do you assume I value political correctness? And exactly what makes my views "arrogant and inhuman"?

I think you've misinterpreted me. I never said that I was okay with religions murdering people, but that you've both blown the problem out of proportion.

Don't waste my time with trying to make me feel bad. Logic is the tool for reasoning, not emotional blackmail.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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12-09-2012, 10:11 PM
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 06:11 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 04:41 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  You're attacking a strawman. Ghost and I weren't pointing out that these things don't happen, but that they happen rarely. The examples you provide don't change the fact that they are out of context. Even though you're being sarcastic, I agree that you're making a mountain out of a molehill. How does the frequency of such deaths compare with deaths by lightning strike, or for that matter, something as improbable as winning the lottery?

Strawman?
Really?

Your argument was that it doesn't happen often. So I provided links showing it does happen, with more frequency than Ghost's unsupported claim that there was "only one documented case"

Now since the one supported case is proven wrong you are moving the goal post.

Don't just throw out names of logical fallacies. My argument was that such problems were infrequent, and your links don't show frequency. As you say, it "shows it does happen", not "shows it happens often". Let's try this again: How many people die to religious persecution per year? For context, 750 children under the age of 14 die every year from drowning in swimming pools. Should we outlaw swimming pools because of all the death it causes? Or do many more than 750 people each year get executed for religious reasons?

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13-09-2012, 02:53 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2012 04:52 AM by Marco Krieger.)
RE: Islam vs Atheism
(12-09-2012 10:11 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 06:11 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Strawman?
Really?

Your argument was that it doesn't happen often. So I provided links showing it does happen, with more frequency than Ghost's unsupported claim that there was "only one documented case"

Now since the one supported case is proven wrong you are moving the goal post.

Don't just throw out names of logical fallacies. My argument was that such problems were infrequent, and your links don't show frequency. As you say, it "shows it does happen", not "shows it happens often". Let's try this again: How many people die to religious persecution per year? For context, 750 children under the age of 14 die every year from drowning in swimming pools. Should we outlaw swimming pools because of all the death it causes? Or do many more than 750 people each year get executed for religious reasons?

Dear Starcrash,
i ask you a simple question, please answer.
You talking about frequency, so, how many chopped of hands or heads per minute made a frequence?
Once again you try to compair accident's and religios motivated murder. Thats not right.
I am sure, every single case of a drowning child is well documented and investigated by the police and if somebody is resposable for that death child he/she face a court.
And after all, the data that comes out of any case is clearly used to make swimmingpools less dangerous for children.
In fact, people with religios beliefs, that restain activitys like physical education, most certain for woman, have a greater risc to drown.
They don't have the opportunity to learn that skill, becaues the belief-system makes it so difficult, that they quit the attempt to learn it.
If you look at the survival-victim-listes in cases of natural-disasters (Tsunami) you will find most of t he victims are female in differend ages.
Many of them drown because they were not allowed to leave there homes without a male-relative.
So, i can not see, that someone makes the same attempt, to make religion less dangerous, i see that you not answer the questions, instead you splitting hairs about numbers of recorded death's.
I say, one death man/woman/childe on what site so ever is one death to much
Humanity begins befor someone gets killed.
That should be our goal or rule for measuring that kind of crime.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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