Islamic Teachings
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29-12-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 10:55 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 10:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  Whether or not there is compulsion to convert doesn't really matter. It is the laws themselves that are barbaric. No Western democracy would countenance those.

Actually the big part of laws you apply in Western countries is the same with Allah's laws . Islam defend democracy and justice .

We don't cut off people's limbs or heads, or stone them to death. We don't punish the victim of rape. Shall I go on?

You seem to live in some fantasy world.

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29-12-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 10:57 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Show us the phrase in which elections and the seperation of religion and state are mentioned in the Quoran.


What you assert here is utterly wrong. Everyone knows that democracy and modern Western laws originate out of Greco-Roman culture.

Firstly we need to look at the meaning of "democracy" , a management format that people have equal rights to shape it . A muslim country , so a country with muslim majority of population would be ruled according to Islamic laws , because the big part of people would want to laws compatible with Islam . Nothing against democracy .
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29-12-2013, 12:20 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 12:11 PM)Nineteen Wrote:  Firstly we need to look at the meaning of "democracy" , a management format that people have equal rights to shape it . A muslim country , so a country with muslim majority of population would be ruled according to Islamic laws , because the big part of people would want to laws compatible with Islam . Nothing against democracy .

Wrong. Most democracies are majority christian, but none of them are ruled under christian laws.

And democracy is not simply governance by the the people, it is governance through representatives elected by the people.

As such, democracies frequently act against the will of the people. The death penalty was for example abolished in most of Europe without the majority of the population in favor of it.

Other than that, islamic laws would require a totalitarian government and if a democracy votes in a totalitarian government that can no longer be replaced by another - it ceases to be a democracy.

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29-12-2013, 12:33 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 12:11 PM)Nineteen Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 10:57 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Show us the phrase in which elections and the seperation of religion and state are mentioned in the Quoran.


What you assert here is utterly wrong. Everyone knows that democracy and modern Western laws originate out of Greco-Roman culture.

Firstly we need to look at the meaning of "democracy" , a management format that people have equal rights to shape it . A muslim country , so a country with muslim majority of population would be ruled according to Islamic laws , because the big part of people would want to laws compatible with Islam . Nothing against democracy .

I might be "arrogant" enough to say that no matter how hard you try, and even if you never give up, western countries such as the USA will never be converted to majority Muslim countries. Most of our Muslims don't understand the true nature of Islam. We are a mostly Christian nation and many of our citizens (Christian and otherwise) have a severe case of islamaphobia.
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29-12-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 12:11 PM)Nineteen Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 10:57 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Show us the phrase in which elections and the seperation of religion and state are mentioned in the Quoran.


What you assert here is utterly wrong. Everyone knows that democracy and modern Western laws originate out of Greco-Roman culture.

Firstly we need to look at the meaning of "democracy" , a management format that people have equal rights to shape it . A muslim country , so a country with muslim majority of population would be ruled according to Islamic laws , because the big part of people would want to laws compatible with Islam . Nothing against democracy .

That's exactly the problem.
Non-Muslims then have less rights, and less status. It's an infantile bunch of bullshit a Third Grader could see through. When the founders set up the US government, at least they were smart enough to recognize the "tyranny of the majority". A Muslim state is an idiotic pile of shit idea. Obviously you have no education.

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29-12-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 12:20 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Wrong. Most democracies are majority christian, but none of them are ruled under christian laws.

Everytime you give the irrelevant examples . If the people does not want to ruled under christianity laws , then they cant be ruled , doesnt matter what is the majority of them , but a real muslim would want Islamic laws .

(29-12-2013 12:20 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  And democracy is not simply governance by the the people, it is governance through representatives elected by the people.

Another irrelevant example : ) yes representatives elected by people and majority decides it. For example we are choosing a president , the candidate who gets the most support would be chosen . In a country with muslim majority of population would chose a muslim president .

(29-12-2013 12:20 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  As such, democracies frequently act against the will of the people. The death penalty was for example abolished in most of Europe without the majority of the population in favor of it.

This is the violation of democracy , you have no right to abolish death penalty if the majority of people want it to be applied .


(29-12-2013 12:20 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Other than that, islamic laws would require a totalitarian government and if a democracy votes in a totalitarian government that can no longer be replaced by another - it ceases to be a democracy.

Oh God Rolleyes

Why are you always trying to slander ? : ) So Islamic laws would require a totalitarian government ? Can you prove me with verses ? or would you want me to prove just the opposite ?
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29-12-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(28-12-2013 06:41 PM)Nineteen Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 06:04 PM)Baruch Wrote:  This is really so boring : ) hadiths are not Islamic teachings ?????

Seriously ?
I know some Hadiths are controversial or disputed in authenticity but Hadith's are central to Islam - especially in interpreting the Quran. Without the Hadiths you don't have the manual for correct Quran interpretation - I am told this all the time by Islamic scholars when I dispute verses in the Quran !!!

You might have meant the particular Hadiths quoted where inauthentic - that's another matter of dispute. Shia & Sunni argue about what Hadith traditions are authentic but that's no surprize. As soon as the leader Mohammed dies, the Quran is disputed - the quintessential hall mark of a man made system !!!Smartass

Consider - if the Quran was Divine would it not have made sense to be accurate and clear who takes over authority and leadership after Mohammed's death and anticipate the great divide which has killed and still killing countless numbers even now as I write this all in the name of a faith that cannot be proven ?

Would it not be more logical to have a Divine revelation which does not require dependence on the teachings of the founder but universal accessible teaching to all ?
Imagine is the Quran or Bible was simultaneously written by Divine revelation in five different civilization independent from each other in their respective languages - all with the same meanings ? (lets say in the Americas, Indus, Mesopotamia, Rhineland and China)
Would this not be more convincing than Mohammed allegedly dictated to write in a cave in the middle of the desert ????

Please not so much sentences and conspiracy theories . So do you accept to make short questions-answers with me ?
How do you know that Islam is true religion?

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29-12-2013, 01:02 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2013 01:34 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Islamic Teachings
Some idiot needs to learn some Logic. NOTHING is "proven" by "verses". Jebus H. Fucking Christ these people are deluded.

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29-12-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 01:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  How do you know that Islam is true religion?

Probably the same way you know the Mormonism to be true: you feel it strongly.
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29-12-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(29-12-2013 08:40 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  All the islamic country laws will be based on Quran , you like it or dont like it . Includes Muslim Western countries of the future . We strive for that and will never give up .

(29-12-2013 08:40 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  If the majority of people want muslim government and muslim rules , then you have to keep up with majority . You don't have to be muslim or behave like a muslim but does not mean you can disturb muslim population . You can move in a country which is ruled by non muslim government .

(29-12-2013 12:11 PM)Nineteen Wrote:  Firstly we need to look at the meaning of "democracy" , a management format that people have equal rights to shape it . A muslim country , so a country with muslim majority of population would be ruled according to Islamic laws , because the big part of people would want to laws compatible with Islam . Nothing against democracy .

Yes, let us define the meaning of democracy:

democracy |diˈmäkrəsē|
noun ( pl. -cies)
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives
• a state governed in such a way
• control of an organization or group by the majority of its members
• the practice or principles of social equality

***

In a democracy such as the US has, democracy does not mean "the majority rules" rather, it means that the rights of the minority are protected.

This does not happen in a theocracy and as such, Muslim law would and does usurp the rights of all who disbelieve Qur'an ... it even says so in the Qur'an....

Surat 2: 354
Quote:O you who have believed, spend from that which We have provided for you before there comes a Day in which there is no exchange and no friendship and no intercession. And the disbelievers - they are the wrongdoers.

Surat 2: 257
Quote:Allah is the ally of those who believe. He brings them out from darknesses into the light. And those who disbelieve - their allies are Taghut. They take them out of the light into darknesses. Those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.

(Taghut = to rebel)


Surat 3: 28
Quote:Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

Surat 3: 85
Quote:And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

Surat 3: 141
Quote:And that Allah may purify the believers [through trials] and destroy the disbelievers.

Surat 3: 196
Quote:Be not deceived by the [uninhibited] movement of the disbelievers throughout the land.

These are from only 2 Surat!
Yes, I've read the Qur'an. Dodgy
***

It is not your fault that this is the only thing you have been manipulated to believe as truths.

It is now up to you to learn that there are other things besides this which are realities.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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