Islamic Teachings
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31-12-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
Sooo, what's current count of folk who have been banned to 19's ignore section?

19 must be deserving of an award for the person who ignores the most posters.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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31-12-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  Sooo, what's current count of folk who have been banned to 19's ignore section?

19 must be deserving of an award for the person who ignores the most posters.

I can't remember anymore lol.

You
DLJ
Muffs
Me
German
Chas

There may be more, not sure.
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31-12-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:15 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 09:42 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Just in case you are referring to me.

1) go for it, I don't run away from threats, and after 3 tours in Iraq burying islamic radicals, I am not going to start now.

2) I have found pro- Islamic fans don't like when hey are faced with the facts of their own religion, so don't cry and run away, deal with it, it is your religion of choice afterall. It is your choice ot embrace a religion that is based on a pedophile "prophet" and which embraces child rape, stoning of women etc etc. Those aren't lies, those are facts...however inconvenient they are.

3) don't cherry pick positive aspects of your religion in a lame attempt to posit Islam as a positive experience, the negatives FAR outweigh the handful of good things...fact, not opinion. As long as Muslims continue to support stoning of women, blowing up of innocent people, marrying and raping of little girls, Bacha bazi, genital mutilation, etc they have a lot to work on before they attempt to say it is a positive impact on society.

I assume you were referring to other replies, and not mine, because mine are simply positing FACTS...not opinions.


Please read the past 350 post in this topic , you will find answers . You cant blame Islam for the behaves of people who defines themselves as "muslim(?)" . or show me a verse about the stoning penalty ?

When a culture or religious belief thinks it is okay to subjugate women, stone "adulterers", rape children, mutilate children's sexual organs etc etc then that culture/religion should expect social backlash. I can blame you, for you allow it to go on still in 2013. Only you can change it.


Bukhari (6:60:79) - Two people guilty of "illegal intercourse" are brought to Muhammad, who commands that they both be stoned. Apparently their act was out of love, however, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.

Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.

Muslim (17:4192) - Clarifies the different penalties for adultery (when the subjects are married), and fornication (when they are not): "in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year" (See also 17:4191)

Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery. Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones. According to the passage, the first several stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.

Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery. Muhammad allows her to have the child, then has her stoned (the description is graphic).

Muslim (17:4209) - A woman confesses adultery and is stoned to death on Muhammad's order.

Ibn Ishaq (970) - "The adulterer must be stoned." These words were a part of Muhammad's farewell address to his people on the occasion of his final pilgrimage to Mecca.

Islamic Law - "The stone shall not be so big so as to kill the person by one or two strikes, neither shall it be so small that it cannot be called a stone"

and I will repeat these AGAIN as they show it is current, not ancient history;

According to a recent fatwa (number 23672), an imam answers this question: "My parents married me to a young girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. How can I enjoy her sexually?" by telling the 'man' that he may "hug her, kiss her, and ejaculate between her legs."

A prominent member of Saudi Arabia's highest religious council said in 2012 that girls can be married "even if they are in the cradle," then went on to explain that intercourse may occur whenever "they are capable of being placed beneath and bearing the weight of the man."

The Qur'an uses the phrase "fornicators or adulterers" in Qur'an 24:2 and prescribes 100 lashes as the punishment (verse 4:15 suggests house arrest for "lewdness"). This almost certainly refers to unmarried sex only, since it would make little sense that fornication and adultery be prescribed the exact same punishment when they are very different offenses. It would also contradict the many examples from the Hadith in which Muhammad put adulterers to death. In fact, Muslim (17:4209) records a case in which an unmarried man is ordered flogged, while his married partner in crime is stoned.

According to Umar, the companion of Muhammad and Islam's second caliph, "[Allah] sent down the Book (Quran) upon him (Muhamad), and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him." Umar went on to insist that "Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession." (Muslim 17:4194)

In other words, there was a verse in the original Quran narration that prescribed stoning adulterers, but it was left out of the compiling process in the years following Muhammad's death. Umar's insistence on the stoning verse is recorded in other volumes that are also among the most reliable Hadith, including Sahih Bukhari 8:817: "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse." (Rajam refers to stoning).

According to a strong tradition (found in Sunan ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith no. 1934), Aisha also recalled the verse that prescribed the death penalty for adulterers. It was written on a palm leaf that was in her home following Muhammad's death. Unfortunately, a goat or sheep wandered into the house and ate the leaf (along with others) before it could be collected and merged into the other hodgepodge of writings that became the Qur'an.

Islamic law (Sharia) requires that adulterers be put to death, since it was the example set by Muhammad. In practice, the women are executed far more often, since they are presumed to bear the burden of sexual responsibility (in Islam's male-dominated society) and are, perhaps, more likely to confess their discretion. Rape victims are sometimes convicted if they speak out. Reporting a rape means a confession of adultery under Sharia law if four male witnesses cannot be found to confirm the victim's claim.

Unable to get around the fact that stoning adulterers is very much a part of Islam, apologists typically travel the familiar path of claiming that Christianity is no different. In this case, they could hardly be more wrong. Not only is the Old Testament rule of stoning anyone explicitly done away with by the example of Jesus (see John 8:1-11, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone") but the episode itself is proof that Christianity is not under the same law as Islam.

While the teachings and example of Jesus stand between Christians and Old Testament law, Muhammad skipped straight back to the harshest of rules (which even the Jews of his day were reluctant to enforce so literally, as Bukhari (6:60:79) makes clear). As with so much else - from forgiveness to waging war - the contrasting personal example set by Jesus and Muhammad with regard to killing adulterers could hardly be more different.

While many Muslims today do find the practice distasteful, there is simply no arguing that killing grown adults over consensual sex isn't firmly rooted in Islamic theology. In fact, according to a recent fatwa, merely denying that is appropriate to stone married adulterers in the modern age is a sign of apostasy.

Numerous examples of stoning adulterers under Islamic law persist, from the Islamist frontier of Somalia to the modern state of Iran. In 2010, the Taliban planted a couple having unauthorized sex in the ground and brutally pelted them with stones (the man had to be finished off with three gunshots) only a few days after they flogged a pregnant woman 200 times and then shot her in the head. In "condemning" the killings, the "moderate" president of Afghanistan would only say that they were wrong because they were not preceded by a trial.

Likewise, a leading theologian in Iran defended a recent stoning sentence simply by reminding his audience that "Democracy, freedom, and human rights have no place in Islam."


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31-12-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
You need to learn what does hadith means and what does verse means , call me when you learn .
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31-12-2013, 10:29 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:26 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(31-12-2013 10:15 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  Please read the past 350 post in this topic , you will find answers . You cant blame Islam for the behaves of people who defines themselves as "muslim(?)" . or show me a verse about the stoning penalty ?

When a culture or religious belief thinks it is okay to subjugate women, stone "adulterers", rape children, mutilate children's sexual organs etc etc then that culture/religion should expect social backlash. I can blame you, for you allow it to go on still in 2013. Only you can change it.


Bukhari (6:60:79) - Two people guilty of "illegal intercourse" are brought to Muhammad, who commands that they both be stoned. Apparently their act was out of love, however, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.

Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.

Muslim (17:4192) - Clarifies the different penalties for adultery (when the subjects are married), and fornication (when they are not): "in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year" (See also 17:4191)

Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery. Muhammad orders him planted in the ground and pelted with stones. According to the passage, the first several stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.

Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses to Muhammad that she is guilty of adultery. Muhammad allows her to have the child, then has her stoned (the description is graphic).

Muslim (17:4209) - A woman confesses adultery and is stoned to death on Muhammad's order.

Ibn Ishaq (970) - "The adulterer must be stoned." These words were a part of Muhammad's farewell address to his people on the occasion of his final pilgrimage to Mecca.

Islamic Law - "The stone shall not be so big so as to kill the person by one or two strikes, neither shall it be so small that it cannot be called a stone"

and I will repeat these AGAIN as they show it is current, not ancient history;

According to a recent fatwa (number 23672), an imam answers this question: "My parents married me to a young girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. How can I enjoy her sexually?" by telling the 'man' that he may "hug her, kiss her, and ejaculate between her legs."

A prominent member of Saudi Arabia's highest religious council said in 2012 that girls can be married "even if they are in the cradle," then went on to explain that intercourse may occur whenever "they are capable of being placed beneath and bearing the weight of the man."

The Qur'an uses the phrase "fornicators or adulterers" in Qur'an 24:2 and prescribes 100 lashes as the punishment (verse 4:15 suggests house arrest for "lewdness"). This almost certainly refers to unmarried sex only, since it would make little sense that fornication and adultery be prescribed the exact same punishment when they are very different offenses. It would also contradict the many examples from the Hadith in which Muhammad put adulterers to death. In fact, Muslim (17:4209) records a case in which an unmarried man is ordered flogged, while his married partner in crime is stoned.

According to Umar, the companion of Muhammad and Islam's second caliph, "[Allah] sent down the Book (Quran) upon him (Muhamad), and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him." Umar went on to insist that "Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession." (Muslim 17:4194)

In other words, there was a verse in the original Quran narration that prescribed stoning adulterers, but it was left out of the compiling process in the years following Muhammad's death. Umar's insistence on the stoning verse is recorded in other volumes that are also among the most reliable Hadith, including Sahih Bukhari 8:817: "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse." (Rajam refers to stoning).

According to a strong tradition (found in Sunan ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith no. 1934), Aisha also recalled the verse that prescribed the death penalty for adulterers. It was written on a palm leaf that was in her home following Muhammad's death. Unfortunately, a goat or sheep wandered into the house and ate the leaf (along with others) before it could be collected and merged into the other hodgepodge of writings that became the Qur'an.

Islamic law (Sharia) requires that adulterers be put to death, since it was the example set by Muhammad. In practice, the women are executed far more often, since they are presumed to bear the burden of sexual responsibility (in Islam's male-dominated society) and are, perhaps, more likely to confess their discretion. Rape victims are sometimes convicted if they speak out. Reporting a rape means a confession of adultery under Sharia law if four male witnesses cannot be found to confirm the victim's claim.

Unable to get around the fact that stoning adulterers is very much a part of Islam, apologists typically travel the familiar path of claiming that Christianity is no different. In this case, they could hardly be more wrong. Not only is the Old Testament rule of stoning anyone explicitly done away with by the example of Jesus (see John 8:1-11, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone") but the episode itself is proof that Christianity is not under the same law as Islam.

While the teachings and example of Jesus stand between Christians and Old Testament law, Muhammad skipped straight back to the harshest of rules (which even the Jews of his day were reluctant to enforce so literally, as Bukhari (6:60:79) makes clear). As with so much else - from forgiveness to waging war - the contrasting personal example set by Jesus and Muhammad with regard to killing adulterers could hardly be more different.

While many Muslims today do find the practice distasteful, there is simply no arguing that killing grown adults over consensual sex isn't firmly rooted in Islamic theology. In fact, according to a recent fatwa, merely denying that is appropriate to stone married adulterers in the modern age is a sign of apostasy.

Numerous examples of stoning adulterers under Islamic law persist, from the Islamist frontier of Somalia to the modern state of Iran. In 2010, the Taliban planted a couple having unauthorized sex in the ground and brutally pelted them with stones (the man had to be finished off with three gunshots) only a few days after they flogged a pregnant woman 200 times and then shot her in the head. In "condemning" the killings, the "moderate" president of Afghanistan would only say that they were wrong because they were not preceded by a trial.

Likewise, a leading theologian in Iran defended a recent stoning sentence simply by reminding his audience that "Democracy, freedom, and human rights have no place in Islam."


http://islamqa.info/en/ref/31807

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31-12-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:15 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  You cant blame Islam for the behaves of people who defines themselves as "muslim(?)"

Yes we can. Where did they get their ideas? Why do they hold those beliefs? What religious text do they consistently reference?

If the Qur'an is perfect, and it inspires violence, then the purpose of the Qur'an is to inspire violence.
If the purpose of the Qur'an is to inspire peace, and it instead inspires violence, then it is not perfect.

Go fix your religion.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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31-12-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:29 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  You need to learn what does hadith means and what does verse means , call me when you learn .
I separated my Qu'ran verses from my Hadith verses and still you refused to debate me.
You need to learn that just because you don't like Hadith doesn't mean it is not an accepted part of Islam. You have no room to come here with your pathetic "Islamic Teachings". You know nothing about Islam.
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31-12-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:29 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  You need to learn what does hadith means and what does verse means , call me when you learn .

You constantly rinterpreted every single phrase of the Quoran that I ever quoted here.

And when I confronted you with that, you admitted to have lied.

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31-12-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:30 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Yes we can. Where did they get their ideas? Why do they hold those beliefs? What religious text do they consistently reference?

If the Qur'an is perfect, and it inspires violence, then the purpose of the Qur'an is to inspire violence.
If the purpose of the Qur'an is to inspire peace, and it instead inspires violence, then it is not perfect.

Go fix your religion.

8:61 If they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable

This verse is enough to shut you up : )
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31-12-2013, 10:39 AM
RE: Islamic Teachings
(31-12-2013 10:29 AM)Nineteen Wrote:  You need to learn what does hadith means and what does verse means , call me when you learn .

Hadith,

a collection of traditions containing sayings of the prophet Muhammad that, with accounts of his daily practice (the Sunna), constitute the major source of guidance for Muslims apart from the Koran.

You trying to imply this isn't a part of your delusion? Tell that to those who are stoned EVERY year in Muslim countries.

Hadith is the collection of the Prophet Muhammad’s statements and actions coupled with the statements and actions of his companions. They are believed to have been collected beginning 150 years after Muhammad’s death in 632 C.E., and it is the basis of jurisprudence for Islamic or Sharia law. To begin to understand Islam, one must understand what parts make up a hadith, how it is classified, and how it is legitimized to mold Sharia.

There are two parts to hadith. The first part is matn, which is the specific content or text of the statements and actions of Muhammad and his companions. The second part is isnad, which is the record of the chain of transmitters all the way back to Muhammad, similar to a family tree. Although an isnad containing Muhammad’s bloodline carries more weight, one does not have to be related to Muhammad to be a transmitter.


Muslims classify hadith in four different categories. The first three categories refer specifically to Muhammad. Awl are the transmissions of Muhammad’s statements, fi'liare the transmission of Muhammad’s deeds or actions, and taqrir are the actions or deeds of the Prophet’s companions or others that Muhammad has approved of. The fourth category of classification is qudsi, which are the Prophet’s words, inspired by Allah, that are not recorded in the Qur'an.

Once a hadith undergoes critical analysis, it becomes authenticated, lending legitimacy to Sharia by offering legal proof. The process begins when Muslim scholars complete a thorough examination of the isnad. They look for information about the transmitters and the transmissions and examine the matn in historical context. Once the analysis is complete, the hadith is given a rating as sahih (authentic), hasan (good), da’if (weak), and mawdu or batil (forged). If a hadith is found to be sahih or hasan, it is admissible as Sharia.

In addition to offering legal proof for Sharia, the authentication and interpretation of hadith has had significant influences on the different sects of Islam. Each sect of Islam views different collections to be the legitimate one. They decide which sayings to trust and which are unreliable. Hadith is also examined against the Qur'an and any statement that conflicts with the Qur'an is thrown out.


Muslims consider the Qur'an the Divine Word of Allah, and it is above all else in Islam. Hadith is second with believers trusting the words and deeds of Muhammad, so it helps to provide supplementation and clarification to the Qur'an. It provides to Muslims a window to look at the Prophet’s way of life and offer examples of what he did or said so they may follow in his footsteps.

if you need me to teach you anything else about your religion, just let me know.
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