Isn't the bible poorly written?
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13-08-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(12-08-2015 08:56 PM)Piet Stassen Wrote:  The word 'Universe' i.e. 'uni + verse' actually means 'A single spoken sentence'.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Did you hear that in a sermon? That's hilarious.

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13-08-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(12-08-2015 06:04 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 05:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't ask atheists to understand my position better.

Then why are you here?

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13-08-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(13-08-2015 04:49 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 04:46 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  It certainly doesn't translate well from its original languages.

Archi

Original languages?

You dun tryin' ta tell me Jesus didn't speak English?

True story ---

I once had a dumbass Jebus-bimbo from Alabama tell me (with a straight face) --"If the King James Bible was good enough for Jesus - it's good enough for ME!!"

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13-08-2015, 07:33 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(13-08-2015 04:49 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-08-2015 04:46 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  It certainly doesn't translate well from its original languages.

Archi

Original languages?

You dun tryin' ta tell me Jesus didn't speak English?

He speaks Spanish.

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13-08-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(13-08-2015 02:37 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 09:43 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to TTA, Piet.

I'm sure you'll do well here.

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I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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13-08-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(13-08-2015 05:15 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I think the bible is very well written but it just wasn't written in a style familiar to us. The delineation between poetry and non poetry is very new. Indeed, Aristotle called history the lowest form of poetry. Because of this the bible has many intricate structural elements to it that are lost to most modern readers. Chiasms and Numerology are good examples. There is a scene in genesis where the sons of Jacob go to Egypt with their sons and wives and there were 66 of them. Then Abraham, Joseph and his wives arrive and make 70. 6 is considered an incomplete number and 7 is considered the covenental number.

Another good example of this sort of thing is Lamech, who said "If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold." (Genesis 4:24), and then lived to be 777 years old. No way are all those sevens just a coincidence. The Bible is full of numerology. Not that that alone makes it great literature, but there is conscious structure everywhere. It is not just the ramblings of illiterate goatherds. It is at least well-crafted.
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13-08-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(12-08-2015 05:34 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 04:51 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Genesis is more interesting stories than poetry. The poetry comes later.

From Job 1:21:

Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.

From Ecclesiastes 9:11:

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

Not only are these great poetry (in my opinion), but the quotation from Ecclesiastes also expresses one of the most profound truths I have ever encountered.
Were you once a Christian? Did you study and adore the bible as a Christian?
Or did you read it as an Atheist?

Of course my liking of Maiden lyrics is heavily tainted by my adoration of the band. They are a brand and I have been caught up in brand preference. I can't objectively assess their future music.

That Job piece that you posted, doesn't seem very good to me, a bit nonsensical and the injection of god seems unnecessary.
The Ecclesiastes piece is OK, nothing profound though. But I'm not saying that the messages in Maiden lyrics are profound either. I guess some truth in it, but it goes too far towards chance and time. Obviously there is a mix of a lot of things that cause someone to win a contest. And this would be obvious to anyone with some time under their belts.

I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic, and therefore heard the Bible read at Mass at least once a week, and every day during my first 8 years of school. However, these readings would have been either in Latin or in a Catholic translation (Douay-Rheims or Confraternity of Christian Doctrine back in the 1960s, New American Bible later on). I didn't really fall in love with the Bible as literature until I discovered the King James version, and that was in my college years, by which time I was effectively an atheist. I remember asking for a King James Bible for my birthday one year, and my dad went ballistic. He thought I was "turning Protestant" (he would have been even more upset had he known that I had already "turned atheist"). I ended up buying a KJV Bible on my own and on the sly.

As for the poetry in Job and Ecclesiastes, there's no accounting for taste. I love those passages, not only for what they say but for how they say it (the essence of poetry), and both books are full of similar stuff. I could also have quoted any number of Psalms, or the Song of Solomon.

Even Richard Dawkins admits that the Bible is important as literature and as a cultural document. You simply can't understand English or American literature and culture unless you're familiar with it. And once you start reading and studying it, you will find literary gems everywhere, provided you keep an open mind (and understand, as Tarzan Smith points out, that this is a different kind of literature than a modern novel). That seems to be a problem for both atheists and theists. Theists can be so conditioned to seeing the Bible as ultimate truth that they can't see the glaring contradictions all over the place. And atheists can be so conditioned to seeing it as ultimate bullshit that they can't see the literary value. I try to be aware of both kinds of things.
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13-08-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(12-08-2015 06:04 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 05:34 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't ask atheists to understand my position better.

Then why are you here?
Answer the questions that I find to be good questions. I do not care if someone doesn't have good understanding of what I am saying.

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13-08-2015, 08:13 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(12-08-2015 07:12 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Actually, my favorite quotation from the Bible is also in Ecclesiastes, the first chapter, verse 18:
"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow." (NKJV)
Yes, I like this one, too
the more bad news you know the more wisdom you have to understand what bad consequence it brings the more sorrow you have.
The more you know how much evil is going on everywhere in the world the more sorrow you have.
The more you understand(wise enough) in what direction children of God or your own children go the more sorrow you have for them.

English is my second language.
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13-08-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: Isn't the bible poorly written?
(13-08-2015 07:59 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-08-2015 05:34 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Were you once a Christian? Did you study and adore the bible as a Christian?
Or did you read it as an Atheist?

Of course my liking of Maiden lyrics is heavily tainted by my adoration of the band. They are a brand and I have been caught up in brand preference. I can't objectively assess their future music.

That Job piece that you posted, doesn't seem very good to me, a bit nonsensical and the injection of god seems unnecessary.
The Ecclesiastes piece is OK, nothing profound though. But I'm not saying that the messages in Maiden lyrics are profound either. I guess some truth in it, but it goes too far towards chance and time. Obviously there is a mix of a lot of things that cause someone to win a contest. And this would be obvious to anyone with some time under their belts.

I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic, and therefore heard the Bible read at Mass at least once a week, and every day during my first 8 years of school. However, these readings would have been either in Latin or in a Catholic translation (Douay-Rheims or Confraternity of Christian Doctrine back in the 1960s, New American Bible later on). I didn't really fall in love with the Bible as literature until I discovered the King James version, and that was in my college years, by which time I was effectively an atheist. I remember asking for a King James Bible for my birthday one year, and my dad went ballistic. He thought I was "turning Protestant" (he would have been even more upset had he known that I had already "turned atheist"). I ended up buying a KJV Bible on my own and on the sly.

As for the poetry in Job and Ecclesiastes, there's no accounting for taste. I love those passages, not only for what they say but for how they say it (the essence of poetry), and both books are full of similar stuff. I could also have quoted any number of Psalms, or the Song of Solomon.

Even Richard Dawkins admits that the Bible is important as literature and as a cultural document. You simply can't understand English or American literature and culture unless you're familiar with it. And once you start reading and studying it, you will find literary gems everywhere, provided you keep an open mind (and understand, as Tarzan Smith points out, that this is a different kind of literature than a modern novel). That seems to be a problem for both atheists and theists. Theists can be so conditioned to seeing the Bible as ultimate truth that they can't see the glaring contradictions all over the place. And atheists can be so conditioned to seeing it as ultimate bullshit that they can't see the literary value. I try to be aware of both kinds of things.

It has often been my opinion that the biggest impediment to explaining the bible to atheists (not all) is that many seem to lack the concept of poetry. Even if we disagree on the inerrancy of the bible, I am sure you can agree with the statement that just because something isn't true does not mean it is not truth.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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