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13-02-2014, 08:48 PM
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 08:46 PM)sporehux Wrote:  its funny how 99% of the world wants an Armageddon.

Fundies want the Rapture
Atheists want a Zombie Post appoclyptica

Do you think atheists REALLY want zombie apocalypse? I think all they want is some love and sex just like the rest of the world. All the people who want apocalypse shit in their pants once it gets real.
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13-02-2014, 08:51 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2014 08:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Israel
Proof of what ?
The State of Israel is a democracy. Is THAT the Kingdom of David reincarnated, led by a messianic king ? No. Actually Israel as a unified nation existed for only a few hundred years. And who is the person, MORE than any other responsible for the longest run of the unified state? The Persian Emperor. Artaxerxes. In Biblical Studies, it's called The Persian Imperative. After the Exile, (before which Israel was TWO states, which HATED each other's guts, which is VERY evident when the Bible is read with the Documentary Hypothesis in mind), Artaxerxes TOLD Ezra how exactly he and the King were to re-establish the nation, how it was going to run, and who was going to do what, when they got back. The present day Israel is MOSTLY Arabs, and secular Jews, and NO TEMPLE. I think not. Ask them what exactly would have to be *different* to make them NOT believe Israel was "reincarnated" ? The fact is they would buy into anything.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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13-02-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 08:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Proof of what ?
The State of Israel is a democracy. Is THAT the Kingdom of David reincarnated, led by a messiah ? No. Actually Israel as a unified nation existed for only a few hundred years. And who is the person, MORE than any other responsible for the longest run of the unified state? The Persian Emperor. Artaxerxes. In Biblical Studies, it's called The Persian Imperative. After the Exile, (before which Israel was TWO states, which HATED each other's guts, which is VERY evident when the Bible is is read with the Documentary Hypothesis in mind). Artaxerxes TOLD Ezra how exactly he and the King were to re-establish the nation, and who was going to do what, when they got back. The present day Israel is MOSTLY Arabs, and secular Jews, and NO TEMPLE. I think not.

When have facts and reality ever stood in the way of fundies belief?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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13-02-2014, 09:18 PM
RE: Israel
Btw even if all the prophecies are precise and did come true it does not mean rest of the book is true either because people could have added bullshit or jesus was not in fact god or god is lying to us. There is a long way to go to prove every portion of the bible is true.
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13-02-2014, 09:19 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 10:07 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 08:45 PM)donotwant Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 08:41 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  If by funny you mean creepy and worrying, then yeah.
I think it's paranoia since they won't succeed. But what I find funny is that god put people on earth supposedly to destroy it with all the people on it later.

Hope you're right, but it's good to keep an eye on them anyway. Skip to around 56:00 to see the relevant portion.




But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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13-02-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: Israel
From Karen Armstrong's, The Battle for God:

Quote:The Jewish people had been central to the vision of John Darby, the founder of premillennialism. Fundamentalists had been thrilled by the Balfour Declaration of 1917, and the actual creation of the State of Israel in 1948 was seen by fundamentalist preacher Jerry Falwell as “the greatest . . . single sign indicating the imminent return of Jesus Christ;” he saw May 14, 1948, when Ben-Gurion proclaimed the birth of the State of Israel, as the most important day in history since the ascension of Jesus into heaven. Support for Israel became mandatory; Israel’s history was beyond human influence and control, determined by God from all eternity. Christ could not return, the last days could not begin, unless the Jews were living in the Holy Land.

Protestant fundamentalists were enthusiastic Zionists, but their vision had a darker side. John Darby had taught that the Antichrist would slaughter two-thirds of the Jews living in Palestine in the End-time. . . . At the same time as Protestant fundamentalists celebrated the birth of the new Israel, they were cultivating fantasies of a final genocide at the end of time. The Jewish state had come into existence purely to further a Christian fulfillment. The Jews’ fate in the Last Days is uniquely grim, since they are doomed to suffer whether or not they accept Christ.

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13-02-2014, 09:40 PM
RE: Israel
I find the American evangelical support of Israel to be utterly repulsive.

Israel was created after the horrors of the holocaust and centuries of discrimination and progroms towards the jews.

It is meant to be and should be a safe heaven and a place of safety for jews from all over the world.

And the evangelicals? They support Israel so the "promissed land" isn`t in muslim hands when Jesus "returns" to convert some of the jews and damn the rest to hell.

That is just antisemetic and completly against any notion of why that nation exists!

Just as bad is the fact that the Israeli right wing in politics happily takes that support.

If I could ask Netanyahu one question it would be:

"What is it like being the jewish primeminister of the worlds only jewish nation and to take political and finacial support from antisemites in that position?"

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13-02-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: Israel
Quote:One challenge from Christians that bothers me is the argument that Israel is proof of the Bible's accuracy. I can't deny that the Bible has a lot to say about Israel, and it doesn't appear to be wrong in its predictions about the Jews

Such as?

[Image: reality.jpg?imgmax=800]
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13-02-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 09:40 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  It is meant to be and should be a safe heaven and a place of safety for jews from all over the world.

A fair goal so far as it stands alone, but not exactly a great idea given that it was a place where other people already lived.

How that's going to get sorted out, fucked if I know.

(well - but once upon a time in model UN a buddy and I pushed through a proposal for a binational single state based on the Belgian constitution; dysfunctional though they may be, they aren't killing each other over it - I would lay the odds of that happening in real life somewhere around the low end of nothing Tongue )

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13-02-2014, 11:28 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 11:35 PM by Youkay.)
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 05:47 PM)Vlad Wrote:  So a bunch of scattered people want to return to their mostly-empty land controlled by a foreign nation (the British). After much effort, they manage to get their state recognized. Yeah, such a good proof of the Bible.

That is what you think?! That the land was "mostly empty"?! That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard! That land was crawling with Palestines before Israel was founded on that very land, leading to a massive depossession of the local people, the ruination of the Palestine nation and ultimately to all the hate and war that is governing that conflict. Just so you know.

[Image: sGkjaCv.jpg]



In my oppinion, it would have been a MUCH better solution, if Israel was founded in todays Bavaria, or any other part of Germany. Or even better, USA. They have plenty of land, which is on top supposed to be "promised" too, and they assumingly have a huge sympathy for jews. By forcefully founding Israel where it is now, only because the bible foretold it, was the origin of all the tension and the hate.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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