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16-02-2014, 06:09 AM
RE: Israel
Is it at all possible to talk about Israel without insults being flung about like Israeli rockets?

Or is all discussion on the topic doomed to insults and internet rage, rather than rational discussion?

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16-02-2014, 06:16 AM
RE: Israel
I dont think that people like Hamas or even people who support Hamas deserve to be talked with like if they were civilised people.

Because they are not civilised people.

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16-02-2014, 06:20 AM
RE: Israel
(16-02-2014 06:16 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I dont think that people like Hamas or even people who support Hamas deserve to be talked with like if they were civilised people.

Because they are not civilised people.

You're not exactly doing a great job representing the civilized peoples of the world there, Blitz.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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16-02-2014, 06:23 AM
RE: Israel
(16-02-2014 06:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  You're not exactly doing a great job representing the civilized peoples of the world there, Blitz.

How are a bunch of people who advocate sharia law, islamic world domination and the murder of all jewish people civilised?

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16-02-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: Israel
(16-02-2014 06:23 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(16-02-2014 06:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  You're not exactly doing a great job representing the civilized peoples of the world there, Blitz.

How are a bunch of people who advocate sharia law, islamic world domination and the murder of all jewish people civilised?

That is not what I said: I said that you weren't being the best representative for the civilised peoples of the world, not that the sharia advocating, Jew eradication demanding people were civilised.
Though come to think of it, there seems to be a considerable lack of that ilk here.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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16-02-2014, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2014 06:51 AM by Youkay.)
RE: Israel
Free Thought. Just go through my initial brief exchange with that punk, which you can find here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...71?page=4.

He is clearly twisting things to fit his tormented fascist hypocritical mind. There is nothing that we could possibly tell him, because on top of being a fascist hypocrite, he is now also on a rage trip.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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16-02-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: Israel
(16-02-2014 06:38 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  That is not what I said: I said that you weren't being the best representative for the civilised peoples of the world, not that the sharia advocating, Jew eradication demanding people were civilised.
Though come to think of it, there seems to be a considerable lack of that ilk here.

I never claimed to be the representative of civilisation and common human decency.

I claim to know what it is though and to defend it.

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16-02-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: Israel
(16-02-2014 06:47 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Free Thought. Just go through my initial brief exchange with that punk, which you can find here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...71?page=4.

He is clearly twisting things to fit his tormented fascist hypocritical mind. There is nothing that we could possibly tell him, because on top of being a fascist hypocrite, he is now also on a rage trip.

Go fuck a Talbian you fascist cunt!

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16-02-2014, 08:10 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2014 08:24 AM by Baruch.)
RE: Israel
(13-02-2014 08:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Proof of what ?
The State of Israel is a democracy. Is THAT the Kingdom of David reincarnated, led by a messianic king ? No. Actually Israel as a unified nation existed for only a few hundred years. And who is the person, MORE than any other responsible for the longest run of the unified state? The Persian Emperor. Artaxerxes. In Biblical Studies, it's called The Persian Imperative. After the Exile, (before which Israel was TWO states, which HATED each other's guts, which is VERY evident when the Bible is read with the Documentary Hypothesis in mind), Artaxerxes TOLD Ezra how exactly he and the King were to re-establish the nation, how it was going to run, and who was going to do what, when they got back. The present day Israel is MOSTLY Arabs, and secular Jews, and NO TEMPLE. I think not. Ask them what exactly would have to be *different* to make them NOT believe Israel was "reincarnated" ? The fact is they would buy into anything.

This is very true response.

1 1/5 of Israel today (not including the PA/Gaza i.e palestine) are arab-israeli citizens living in a democracy mixed with mostly secular Jews who are indistinguishable from most secular western states.
- Hardly a prediction of a resurrected Israel under kings descended from David !
This is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

2 The Palestinian autonomous areas (PA controlled West bank & Hamas controlled Gaza) are virtually all Arab (except some extremist settler jews) and unlikely to ever be incorporated into a single Israel or palestine (a one state solution is a fantasy for both sides)
Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

3 The majority of secular jews and many religious jews don't want anything to do with the Palestinian controlled areas - they have given up the idea of a single state Israel from Mediterranean to the river Jordan and opt for a two state solution. For the secular Jews this is easy to understand & obvious. However many religious jews living in Israel also want a two state solution for a variety of factors. (eg pragmatism until the messiah arrives to solve the problems, not risking life & pursuing peace which is a biblical law which can override religious nationalism in many interpretations )
Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

4 The 'extreme' or right wing nationalist religious jews are a minority - but very vocal, however they have been overpowered many times before from within Israel (and pressure from without) for example the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza in 2003 evacuating all the jewish settlements and leaving Gaza completely Hamas ruled (the R.Wing Jews were forced out kicking & screaming by the Israeli state and not even compensated properly) .
The religious nationalist right wing will not go away - but they do not have enough power to persuade the rest of Israel to follow. The Jewish secularists despise many of them and the "moderate religious" are far more pragmatic than idealistic when trying to fulfil biblical prophecy. The religious moderates are comfortable with their religious lives - there is no desperate need to go ruining a comfortable religious life which has its own promised reward & replace that for idealistic fantasies - they just leave that for a future messiah & patiently wait & pray.
Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

5 Right wing Christians (especially in US) stoke the flames and try to ignite Armageddon. - this is truly self fulfilling prophecy on behalf of those Christians
Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

6 Arabs externally, whether pan Arab nationalists (eg Nasser) or Islamists (funded by places like Saudi's for Sunni's and Iran for Shia's) trying to fulfil Islamic prophecy & the return of the Islamic caliphate & greater 'uma' (the extended lands conquered by the first Islamic empires) - also stoke the flames !
Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!

I personally experienced this when I met a Saudi preacher who had little care for Palestinians (look how Palestinian refugees are treated in Arab countries ! ) but was inflamed at the lack of dignity and losses of power that the first Islamic Empires had and wanted to return "to the golden days of the 8th-10th century Islam" This was his mission, his 'raison d'etre' - any western like state within the boundaries of the ancient Islamic caliphate is an insult to Islam and Allah, a sign of weakness, a sign that Jihad is required to re-establish the old empire.

7 The endogenous arab-israeli population (1/5th of Israel) are also growing due to higher birth rate - so far the majority have no intention of creating an arab state or joining the Palestinian arabs (PA & Hamas palestine) and they live a quality of life superior to most surrounding Arab countries (other than oil rich low population Gulf states) Again - this is very far from the biblical prophecy !!!
It seems unlikely this will change in the near future* , especially due to instability in virtually every arab country around Israel (Syria, Egypt, Lebanon - even Jordan has had insurgency and threaten the Hashemite monarchy)
The Arab-Israeli's have their political issues (sympathies with the Israeli jewish left, antagonistic with the jewish right wing eg Balad, Hadash & others are arab-israeli parties representing the Arab population) but it pales into insignificance compared to the local regional conflicts - so why risk upsetting a comfortable situation. (may not be an ideal situation)

* I said the situation with arab Israeli's unlikely to change in near future - in the long term I don't know. I can speculate two scenario's which I have some experience with because I am friendly with some arab-Israeli families of different types of background.
scenario #1 is that the arab-israeli's become much more assimilated and indistinguishable from secular jews - this has already happened and many tourists cannot tell the difference. Much like in any cosmopolitan area where you cannot tell based on facial features. In Israel beaches are mixed, business are mixed and marriages occur - some cities and towns are blended together (eg Jaffa & Tel-Aviv)
Also what about the children of arab/jewish Israeli parents ? The original identities become lost and hopefully replaced with humanistic values independent of religious tribes. Boy meets Girl, fall in love....and have babies. There is no marriage restrictions in Israeli civil law between ethnicities. (for that matter gays can get married ! )

scenario #2 Perhaps as the birth rate of right wing "ultra orthodox" jews increases AND arab-Israeli populations continue with high birth rate and have some religious resurgence/revival in fundamentalist Islam leaving behind the secular jews as a minority. I dread such a scenario. The ultra orthodox jews keep their identities from assimilation & can overpower the secular. The Arab-Israeli's who have a revival in fundamentalist Islam will also overpower the secular jews (and arabs lets not forget) Quite scary. Lets hope scenario #1 prevails and secular humanistic values find peace in a democratic state.

BOTH scenario's can happen ! More blogs and spread of humanism would prevent the latter scenario ! Just have more secular humanist babies regardless if Arab, Jewish or anything else.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
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16-02-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: Israel
Also guess what happens to some gay Palestinians who want to get married in Hamas controlled Gaza or even PA controlled West Bank i.e Palestine....I will leave that to your imagination, but lets say its not a marriage made in heaven !

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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