Israel
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-02-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 11:34 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 08:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'd say you're probably at least 80 percent correct, but.....

We've always had religious zealots. Some of them even get into high public offices.

I'm betting more than one person involved in the creation of the state of Israel thought he was doing "god's work".

Nope.

the early zionists were socialists and secular.

religious jews even opposed the founding of Israel until Ben Gureon baited them into it.

I read somewhere a while ago that the Zionists were offered Uganda and turned it down. Would this not hint that there is at least some religious motivation and not just political?

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 11:52 AM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 11:42 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 11:34 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Nope.

the early zionists were socialists and secular.

religious jews even opposed the founding of Israel until Ben Gureon baited them into it.

I read somewhere a while ago that the Zionists were offered Uganda and turned it down. Would this not hint that there is at least some religious motivation and not just political?

Because there already was a significant jewish community in Israel.

[Image: RPYH95t.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 11:52 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 11:42 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I read somewhere a while ago that the Zionists were offered Uganda and turned it down. Would this not hint that there is at least some religious motivation and not just political?

Because there already was a significant jewish community in Israel.

Hmm, I guess that makes a bit of sense. The Palestinian flag even had the colours of the current Israeli flag and a star of David upon it.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 11:34 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 08:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'd say you're probably at least 80 percent correct, but.....

We've always had religious zealots. Some of them even get into high public offices.

I'm betting more than one person involved in the creation of the state of Israel thought he was doing "god's work".

Nope.

the early zionists were socialists and secular.

religious jews even opposed the founding of Israel until Ben Gureon baited them into it.

I wasn't referring to the Jewish contingent. I was thinking of Christian fundies who had their own agenda.... Sorry for not being clear about that.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Israel
Israel doesn't exist because of some nonsense prophecy, it exists for the Jewish people.

Let's distinguish nation and state - A nation is a group of people with very similar unifying characteristics that leads them to form strong and organized social groups and bonds to the point it becomes clear they need their own territory to manage their needs (it could be linguistics/language, culture, customs, habits, ancestors, and - Regardless of the biological concept of race - Ethnicity/race are also an important common trait). When a group of people form a nation, they end up becoming a state with the fulfilment of 3 requisites - (1) A piece of land, geographical location (2) The group of people itself that are citizens of that nation (3) The existence of organized political power that runs and governs the state.

Considering the requirements, and acknowledging that Israelis are NOT the same as Palestinians is enough to argue for Israel's existence. It is a different prerogative to discuss if their land should be expanded, but it's not arguable that they have the right to exist as a nation. To say Israel shouldn't exist is the same thing as a foreigner telling me that Portugal shouldn't exist as a separate nation from Spain, and honestly, that's offensive and offends my origins.

Judaism as a religion probably plays a part, Israeli doesn't have an homogeneous population both racially (there's arabs*) and religiously speaking; but as far as I'm concerned they have relatively secular laws with some extra preponderance of Judaism and Jewish religious authorities. What unites Jews more is not religion itself but their common culture and ethnicity, as well as, obviously, the massacre that was the Holocaust.

*I'm using arabs and jews as a race/ethnicity according to physical traits we associate to those people and use to classify them - I know race doesn't exist biologically, but it does exist socially and culturally, refusing to recognize it is completely ignorant (in my opinion) because it dismisses the importance race has for many people and the injustices people often face because of race, as well as the union and bonds it creates between people and feelings of identity. When I talk about arabs I mean the average brown-skinned person people think about when someone brings out a country from the middle east (imagine a brown-skinned Muslim man with a beard) // Jews are diverse group ethnically though they look similar to what we classify as white people frequently. Googling it will reveal some traits societies associate with Jewish people ethnically speaking (big noses and other shit - Some folks say I'm Jewish)

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 02:56 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Israel was created not because of some prophecy.

It was created to provide a safe nation for jews where they can seek refuge from persecution, discrimination and murder.

It was created not for religious puposes but for humanitarian purposes.

And anyone who claims that it was created through som christian prophecy is in my mind an antisemite who doesnt give a damn about the true reasons for Israels existance.

WHY it was created may not have been for religious reasons.
WHERE it was created most assuredly was.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 01:00 PM
RE: Israel
(06-02-2015 11:55 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(06-02-2015 11:52 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Because there already was a significant jewish community in Israel.

Hmm, I guess that makes a bit of sense. The Palestinian flag even had the colours of the current Israeli flag and a star of David upon it.

The Palestinian flag wasnt even invented by the Palestinians.

It was designed by the British and the French, who at the collapse of the Ottoman empire designed new flags to give to the new nations they created.

[Image: RPYH95t.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: Israel
Israel, as it exists today, and regardless of the views of a few fanatics, is by far the most secular nation in the region. Playing along with the Zionist bullshit is the most rational way to make sure my descendants are not still dealing with the craziers of the various crazies.

I don't give a rat's ass what the name of the country administering the laws is, so long as the law is not based exclusively on superstition (including but not limited to Islam). I have no hate, for example, for the Palestinians. But Palestine, as a nation, means nothing to me. Neither does Israel, except for the fact that it makes a better starting point If the end objective is a Middle East not governed by Sharia law or something based on it.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes yakherder's post
06-02-2015, 03:28 PM
RE: Israel
Isn't the notion that Israel was made for non-religious reasons more of a point in their argument's favor than our's (so to speak)?

I mean, if a fortune teller tells you you'll get a rock thrown at your head, and then does so, that's obviously her going out of her way to make the prediction come true. If a fortune teller tells you that same thing, but it doesn't actually happen until you get home the next day, it's still bull crud, but people are more likely to buy into it.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Israel
Actually, I would like to see that prophecy if someone knows where it is.

Xtians are a little loose with the prophecy bullshit.

According to prophecy, Tyre Was supposed to be covered by the waves and jesus freaks will twist their balls into a knot trying to insist that it is so.

[Image: tyreleb.jpg]

It isn't.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: