It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
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28-01-2012, 10:01 PM
It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
Me and my friend joke about being athiests in one class (I go to a small college) and in another class, The local youth preacher's son and two other boys confronted me.

using lines like

"Scientific theory has been proven inaccurate, the bible never has"
"I should attend a church camp then I will believe"
"If I wish to know the truth I should talk to his father"

Things like that.. It's just when I'm put on the spot I lock up a bit.

I tried to use my favored arguement of the fact that the bible has been translated many times over, through langauges that aren't really compatable with one another.

I've been to a church camp with his church before, which might I add, I was at his church before he was. I was born into that church, and rejected by it long before he moved here. (I live in a town small enough for people to be judged by last name and my disowned father has a less than reputable name.) I digressed, but as with any church camp I've been too I had that mild caught up in the moment and was "really feeling it" but after that week. eh, I lost it.

So I lost my arguement, am I out of the club? What would you do?
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28-01-2012, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2012 10:23 PM by Logisch.)
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
Quote:"Scientific theory has been proven inaccurate, the bible never has"

MANY scientific theories have been disproved. But the way a theist seems to see a theory is not quite how scientists see a theory. In science, a theory to become recognized requires a LOT of consistency. Lots of results. You have to be able to test that theory, throw everything at it and if it can live up to the tests and show consistent results and accuracy then it can become an accepted theory. If we weren't able to do this, it would be pointless to use the scientific method.

So to say "Well theories aren't always true" is true. But to say theory is some sort of flippant piece of bullcrap is way off. There are many cosmology theories where the math is accurate to TEN EFFIN DECIMAL PLACES. Creationists would still tell you it's just a theory. I'm sorry, how accurately have they determined the age of the universe? Yet they still can't explain the speed of light comparison of the age of stars without giving me the - "Well it was just there." argument, which isn't evidence. It makes no sense, it's stupid. Ignorant.

The bible being never proved wrong is way off by a long shot. If the bible were proven true beyond a reasonable doubt full of evidence, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The bible has not explained to me the speed of light vs stars and the age of the universe. It has not explained to me all the wildly mythical creatures in the bible and why there are no fossil records (such as giants, such as dragons, satyr, etc). The bible has not explained to me why the whole entire order of creation is the same as polytheistic religions that pre-date the bible, please, explain that one to me if the bible is the only version of it? Your friend should go read the Canaanite tablets of creation and then get back to us.

The bible also lacks anything but hearsay for this stuff. Why is it that there was this wondrous age of miracles then suddenly it stopped? That makes no sense to me. Theists can't make up their mind whether or not life was created from the big bang or if it was just simply thrown into existence. Either way you challenge them on it, they will change sides to - "Well it can be proved by science! See, the big bang obviously must have been god..." or "See, big bang is all wrong, because it's theory. So therefore it was god." I remember one time a theist telling me, "OH but they did find fossil records of giants! But they got stolen and were never found again." Oh... yeah, that's convenient. That makes it very credible all the sudden?

If I throw one of my engines on a table and you nothing about it... and I tell you inside this engine are valves... you might say, "yeah I've heard that used before, so valves must exist." and then I could say, "There's also a camshaft and valve springs." and you might say... "yeah i've heard that too." but if I told you it was filled with gold and that a magical german lawn gnome created it, you'd tell me I'm crazy. I would then tell you I've got a book that goes back thousands of years, several scholars with PHDs in bullcrap said it's true and there's credibility to believe that this ancient book of the magical german lawn gnome that makes engines from gold inside them existed. You'd obviously want proof.

What is indisputable though is that there is an engine (The universe) and it does have technical ways it works (like the valve train of an engine, mechanically working together to function) and it is complex and has a lot of technical portions to it. Some would tell us it was thrown together from golden magic from this gnome, while the rest of us are busy tearing it apart looking into it, reverse engineering it so we can understand it. Then theists come in and say - "Well you don't fully understand it, so the gnome did it!" - but for us mechanics, that makes no logical sense.

Quote:"I should attend a church camp then I will believe"
As an atheist, seeing is believing. You can't take me to a camp and MAKE me believe. Unless god comes down from the sky into the woods at camp and says - "WASAAAAAP!" then I might consider it.

Quote:"If I wish to know the truth I should talk to his father"
The pastor? Sure, talk to him. Ask him for proof. Irrefutable proof that god exists. Then research it, break it down, question it and come up with a conclusion. But just because someone thumps a book and says "THIS IS TRUE!" doesn't mean you have to believe it without finding evidence first.
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28-01-2012, 10:17 PM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
There’s a club?

Ask him what theories have been proven inaccurate, and ask him what they where replaced with.
I can’t think of any that go “Whoops, we where wrong and it was god all along…”
Or not bother, if he wants to believe in some old myth then let him.

In this club, do we get cheap drinks?

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-01-2012, 10:19 PM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
(28-01-2012 10:17 PM)Karl Wrote:  There’s a club?

Ask him what theories have been proven inaccurate, and ask him what they where replaced with.
I can’t think of any that go “Whoops, we where wrong and it was god all along…”
Or not bother, if he wants to believe in some old myth then let him.

In this club, do we get cheap drinks?

Only if it's scotch would I accept the drink. Better be a single malt highland, 15 year minimal.
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28-01-2012, 11:14 PM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
There's nothing wrong with keeping your views private. Sometimes I don't feel like discussing my opinions with christians. Like while I'm working >.>

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-01-2012, 11:17 PM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
Yeah totally nothing wrong with that. I pretty much don't discuss my views on stuff with people I work with. What's the fastest way to get yourself a title and attitude thrown at you with someone you don't know well? Talk politics, or religion (or lack of). There is maybe 2 or 3 I don't mind it, but they are friends of mine.
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29-01-2012, 08:24 AM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
(28-01-2012 10:01 PM)Squid Wrote:  So I lost my arguement, am I out of the club? What would you do?

Fuck 'em.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-01-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
(28-01-2012 10:01 PM)Squid Wrote:  So I lost my arguement, am I out of the club? What would you do?

Ha - boys - so funeee! Tongue

Anyone who wants someone to talk to their Daddy, is not in college to learn stuff.
Anyone who does not want to grow up, will not think for themselves.
Dodgy

Do the two following sentences.
Go to college and learn stuff.
Be an adult and think for yourself.

(extra credit sentences -optional)
Make up your life as you go.
Don't waste time.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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29-01-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
(29-01-2012 08:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 10:01 PM)Squid Wrote:  So I lost my arguement, am I out of the club? What would you do?

Fuck 'em.

There's more to life than sex, you know.

At least, that's the rumor I heard.

What argument? Beat 'em with a stick. Tongue

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
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29-01-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: It has occured to me, I'm a terrible athiest
(29-01-2012 10:20 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(29-01-2012 08:24 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 10:01 PM)Squid Wrote:  So I lost my arguement, am I out of the club? What would you do?

Fuck 'em.

There's more to life than sex, you know.

At least, that's the rumor I heard.

Blasphemy.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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