It's Supernatural.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-12-2013, 05:46 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 05:39 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(08-12-2013 09:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Thats what Shamanism is, everything has a spirit.

No, you are confusing animism with shamanism. There is no universally agreed upon definition of exactly what shamanism is but the central idea is that the shaman acts as an intermediary between the "spririt world" and this world. Many traditional cultures that have shamans are not animistic, e.g. Inuit shamanism is not animistic, they don't believe that inanimate objects have spirits.

And Inuit Shamanism is such a small portion of Shamanism world-wide you really had to stretch to go get that statistic to support your statement. And actually you're still basically incorrect. Inuit Shamanism believes everything to have a **soul** - whereas Rev used the term "Spirit".

Generally speaking, Rev, yes, shamanism believes everything has a spirit.

It's a good idea to view non-Abrahamic sects much the same way as observing the varying doctrines of the christian faith (within their Thousands of different claims). The details vary from 'tribe' to 'tribe'.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 07:56 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 07:34 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You are still on my ignore list but I had a look at your assumed response.

(12-12-2013 05:46 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  And actually you're still basically incorrect. Inuit Shamanism believes everything to have a **soul** - whereas Rev used the term "Spirit".

Actually no. In Inuit Shamanism they do not believe rocks have spirits or souls and one of their rituals confirms this understanding. If rocks had spirits or souls then the "logic" of the rock-lifting ritual wouldn't work. The rock becomes heavy because they believe the apiqsaq (helping spirit) grasps the rock from below to communicate a yes or no answer to the shaman's questions. The rock is an inert object in the ritual.[1] The ritual doesn't describe any interaction between the apiqsaq and the "rock spirit".

Quote:Generally speaking, Rev, yes, shamanism believes everything has a spirit.

"Rev" isn't an Inuit word.[2]

No, the Inuit do not believe everything has a spirit or a soul. They believe that all living things have anirniq which means breath. [3] Rocks don't have anirniq. The Inuit believe that when something is killed its anirniq escapes. You can't kill a rock.



You're supposed to have me on IGNORE you Nut-Bag so I can freely discuss with other members here and not have you up my ass.
Please put me back on ignore. My post was for Rev not really you. Obviously. Go away Chippy........

And for your information
um...........yes it is true you cannot kill a rock ...derrr (no one proposed that you could)......... but a great many (delusional - but doesn't matter) people Believe that rocks have energies and spirits.

ANNnnnnd............. I said "in general shamanism" which was Rev's point! You don't get it Chippy.........and you're not going to.



No "Rev" isn't an Inuit word. REV is a member here to whom I was speaking.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 08:02 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2013 08:56 AM by WitchSabrina.)
RE: It's Supernatural.
K guys --- we're not going to get to have our "Supernatural" discussion here either.
Those who've written me in PMs or emails........ we can continue our conversations outside this forum. Although there's an entire thread now in Viper land devoted to Chippy's need to be special and HEARD and SEEN big time........... he's going to interrupt This thread of conversation as well.

I look forward to continuing the conversation - just elsewhere.

cheers

EDIT: Chippy's disruption has been sent to the Viper Pit of this thread - So -My apologies everyone. I would delete this if I knew how. But for now hopefully an edit will work. We CAN continue -- YAY!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 08:39 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 07:56 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 07:34 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You are still on my ignore list but I had a look at your assumed response.


Actually no. In Inuit Shamanism they do not believe rocks have spirits or souls and one of their rituals confirms this understanding. If rocks had spirits or souls then the "logic" of the rock-lifting ritual wouldn't work. The rock becomes heavy because they believe the apiqsaq (helping spirit) grasps the rock from below to communicate a yes or no answer to the shaman's questions. The rock is an inert object in the ritual.[1] The ritual doesn't describe any interaction between the apiqsaq and the "rock spirit".


"Rev" isn't an Inuit word.[2]

No, the Inuit do not believe everything has a spirit or a soul. They believe that all living things have anirniq which means breath. [3] Rocks don't have anirniq. The Inuit believe that when something is killed its anirniq escapes. You can't kill a rock.



You're supposed to have me on IGNORE you Nut-Bag so I can freely discuss with other members here and not have you up my ass.
Please put me back on ignore. My post was for Rev not really you. Obviously. Go away Chippy........

And for your information
um...........yes it is true you cannot kill a rock ...derrr (no one proposed that you could)......... but a great many (delusional - but doesn't matter) people Believe that rocks have energies and spirits.

ANNnnnnd............. I said "in general shamanism" which was Rev's point! You don't get it Chippy.........and you're not going to.



No "Rev" isn't an Inuit word. REV is a member here to whom I was speaking.

He really must get off on you. Anyone else sensing a Napoleon complex from Chippy?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 09:00 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(07-12-2013 06:35 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 10:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Oh this is evolutionary. Tribal identity was very important (much more so than individual identity) to survival in the Hunter-gatherer days. Your group needed to be strong and coherent, you could not be backbiting each other or you would die come winter. We were H/G for far longer than we have been settled into 1 spot farming or even living in a permanent structure and some of those traits have yet to be bred out.

If you saw a stranger in your lands chances were high he was a scout for a raiding party and had hostile intentions (rape murder pillage kidnapping of the women) if however he shared your tribes markings, religion style of clothes etc, he may have been there to trade or to share news. So we have been conditioned to distrust the outsider unless they share that which makes us Us.

So the safest way to neutralise the threat from neighboring tribes was to band together into a larger tribe. Religion is a good way to unify people, it has always been more about control than any pondering of metaphysics. It is an imperfect system but it is from before the dawn of civilization so that explains why it is so omnipresent.

Religion also laid down rules that made life within the tribe safer - like no murdering, no sleeping with someone else's wife/husband, no stealing and such.

I think it would be good if we tackled Dom's comments here ^
Any takers?
Maybe talk about how Supernatural element (for lack of a better word) played a part in helping people behave? And why that still works today apparently?

Myself- I get the whole dark ages need to assist people in curbing their bad behavior. From what I've read things (like just living a life) was so very difficult stealing for food for your family or murder, etc was rampant. So a church working to issue control to help people Live better and BE better - I get that.
What I don't get......... is as centuries passed and life greatly improved (for some) why the need for deity didn't evaporate?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 10:07 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 09:00 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 06:35 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion also laid down rules that made life within the tribe safer - like no murdering, no sleeping with someone else's wife/husband, no stealing and such.

I think it would be good if we tackled Dom's comments here ^
Any takers?
Maybe talk about how Supernatural element (for lack of a better word) played a part in helping people behave? And why that still works today apparently?

Myself- I get the whole dark ages need to assist people in curbing their bad behavior. From what I've read things (like just living a life) was so very difficult stealing for food for your family or murder, etc was rampant. So a church working to issue control to help people Live better and BE better - I get that.
What I don't get......... is as centuries passed and life greatly improved (for some) why the need for deity didn't evaporate?
God's often were usually a surrogate father/mother figure. So there is that. Some folks genuinely want to please their parents and if an animal sacrifice is called for that's gonna have to do. We're seeing the evaporations of deities now, and has been going on for incredibly long time. One reason that people still cling is because they fear the human condition. We're all gonna suffer and die, why not set reservations for some fancy resort before death? There is also the rule book that "some" people follow. Really basic stuff you can genuinely figure out on your own. These books are used as a guide how to live your life although it carries lots of baggage with it. You're inheritably a sinner, worthless and flawed in some way. Granted we do have flaws but the rest seems so unnecessary and abstract.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes grizzlysnake's post
12-12-2013, 10:09 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 10:07 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 09:00 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I think it would be good if we tackled Dom's comments here ^
Any takers?
Maybe talk about how Supernatural element (for lack of a better word) played a part in helping people behave? And why that still works today apparently?

Myself- I get the whole dark ages need to assist people in curbing their bad behavior. From what I've read things (like just living a life) was so very difficult stealing for food for your family or murder, etc was rampant. So a church working to issue control to help people Live better and BE better - I get that.
What I don't get......... is as centuries passed and life greatly improved (for some) why the need for deity didn't evaporate?
God's often were usually a surrogate father/mother figure. So there is that. Some folks genuinely want to please their parents and if an animal sacrifice is called for that's gonna have to do. We're seeing the evaporations of deities now, and has been going on for incredibly long time. One reason that people still cling is because they fear the human condition. We're all gonna suffer and die, why not set reservations for some fancy resort before death? There is also the rule book that "some" people follow. Really basic stuff you can genuinely figure out on your own. These books are used as a guide how to live your life although it carries lots of baggage with it. You're inheritably a sinner, worthless and flawed in some way. Granted we do have flaws but the rest seems so unnecessary and abstract.



Dmmit - now you know if you sum things up so nicely you kill conversation.
LOL

*shakes head*

but.......yeah........ ok............ excellent post. Really you wrapped it up in a paragraph.
Kinda makes you wonder how the world + time = so much difficulty. eh?

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 09:00 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 06:35 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion also laid down rules that made life within the tribe safer - like no murdering, no sleeping with someone else's wife/husband, no stealing and such.

I think it would be good if we tackled Dom's comments here ^
Any takers?
Maybe talk about how Supernatural element (for lack of a better word) played a part in helping people behave? And why that still works today apparently?

Myself- I get the whole dark ages need to assist people in curbing their bad behavior. From what I've read things (like just living a life) was so very difficult stealing for food for your family or murder, etc was rampant. So a church working to issue control to help people Live better and BE better - I get that.
What I don't get......... is as centuries passed and life greatly improved (for some) why the need for deity didn't evaporate?
I watched something on..through the wormhole with Morgan Freeman, and one of the topics was god and there was an experiment with children that were asked to perform a task without cheating while the supervisor went into the other room. Of course some of the kids did cheat but then the instructor told them that Alice was there in the room with them sitting on a chair who didn't want them to cheat when the supervisor left. You should see the expressions on these kids faces. They didn't know what to do. They would just stare at the chair. You could see that they were contemplating if they were going to cheat or not and often didn't just so Alice would be happy with them. Who is Alice? No one was in the room with them, Alice was purely imaginary.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 10:21 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 09:00 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I think it would be good if we tackled Dom's comments here ^
Any takers?
Maybe talk about how Supernatural element (for lack of a better word) played a part in helping people behave? And why that still works today apparently?

Myself- I get the whole dark ages need to assist people in curbing their bad behavior. From what I've read things (like just living a life) was so very difficult stealing for food for your family or murder, etc was rampant. So a church working to issue control to help people Live better and BE better - I get that.
What I don't get......... is as centuries passed and life greatly improved (for some) why the need for deity didn't evaporate?
I watched something on..through the wormhole with Morgan Freeman, and one of the topics was god and there was an experiment with children that were asked to perform a task without cheating while the supervisor went into the other room. Of course some of the kids did cheat but then the instructor told them that Alice was there in the room with them sitting on a chair who didn't want them to cheat when the supervisor left. You should see the expressions on these kids faces. They didn't know what to do. They would just stare at the chair. You could see that they were contemplating if they were going to cheat or not and often didn't just so Alice would be happy with them. Who is Alice? No one was in the room with them, Alice was purely imaginary.


Mean fucking thing to do to children.




wait..........


there is Sunday school.............




my bad

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-12-2013, 10:34 AM
RE: It's Supernatural.
(12-12-2013 10:09 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 10:07 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  God's often were usually a surrogate father/mother figure. So there is that. Some folks genuinely want to please their parents and if an animal sacrifice is called for that's gonna have to do. We're seeing the evaporations of deities now, and has been going on for incredibly long time. One reason that people still cling is because they fear the human condition. We're all gonna suffer and die, why not set reservations for some fancy resort before death? There is also the rule book that "some" people follow. Really basic stuff you can genuinely figure out on your own. These books are used as a guide how to live your life although it carries lots of baggage with it. You're inheritably a sinner, worthless and flawed in some way. Granted we do have flaws but the rest seems so unnecessary and abstract.



Dmmit - now you know if you sum things up so nicely you kill conversation.
LOL

*shakes head*

but.......yeah........ ok............ excellent post. Really you wrapped it up in a paragraph.
Kinda makes you wonder how the world + time = so much difficulty. eh?
lol yeah its a habit.
Well time gives you stuff, lots and lots of stuff. For example, a child growing up in the middle ages usually crammed in the same room with their parents and hand just some boring old wooden toys to play with. Then maybe you get a game of chess after the crusades and then folks invite more games and they're all still made of wood. Boring. So lame, and nowadays wow. Nothing is made of wood but cheap plastic of iconic superheros and trucks! Also some cool nerf guns and laser tag, remote control everything and of course all the fancy high-end electronics and video games. Also, they usually have their own room with a TV and unfortunately sometimes they have to share it with their sister...poor kid. Adult life is even more complicated. People forget that you only need shelter, warm clothes, food, and a good book to live. Plus money to buy and keep that stuff.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes grizzlysnake's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: