"It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
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03-03-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
No, you aren't an asshole, you just had a bout with a really fierce defender of cultural-moral relativism.

I think that cultural relativism is fine when only dealing with benign cultural artifacts, but when it involves treatment of people, cultural relativism comes across as an anti-human rights philosophy. It treats the right's of the culture to be above that of the people, even if the culture inflicts genuine human suffering. I treat people above the cultures we construct, hence I find cultural-moral relativism to be despicable for defending oppressive practices.

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03-03-2014, 09:37 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
(03-03-2014 09:13 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 09:12 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  You're a man. You should go and force all those women OUT of their religion.
Dont ask them. Just intervene and do it. It's for their own good. *wink* Blokes know best right?


...unless the baby isnt born yet, in which case it's HER body, HER penis, and you have no right to judge what she does.

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03-03-2014, 10:21 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
(03-03-2014 09:37 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 09:13 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Negs. Drinking Beverage

Not more negative reps. Weeping

NEGS.

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03-03-2014, 11:36 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
(03-03-2014 08:50 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm a bit tipsy right now, and thus, a bit emotional. However, this is a rare occasion when I'm actually blood-boilingly angry.

I got into a spat with an absolute moron on Facebook who believes that the goings on of a particular culture is not for anyone else to judge. Specifically, we were speaking about the various atrocities carried out in the name of culture or religion; such as the mutilation of female genitals, women being forced to cover their faces in accordance with a misogynistic society, children undergoing various other forms of bodily mutilation/alteration, etc.

I think myself to be a fairly decent human being. I have my moments, but overall, I don't generally advocate the unnecessary harm of other people. I believe that slicing off a little girl's clit is wrong. I believe forcing a woman into subjugation is wrong. I believe altering the skull-shape of an infant is wrong. I believe hacking off part of an infant's penis is wrong. I believe, in general, that inflicting non-medical harm upon the body of a non-consenting individual is wrong. Personally, I don't see how a decent individual could view such acts as anything but wrong.

But this moron…this…vacuous fucking dipshit tells me that I'm "arrogant" for passing judgment on these people. By his logic (and this DID enter the conversation), I am not to pass judgment on a culture which (hypothetically) believes it is proper to anally rape infant children in order to appease the gods with their blood-curdling screams. He tells me that I am not in the position to speak against this because 1) I am not in any position to decide what is and what is not "wrong", 2) I was lucky enough to be born into a 1st-world country and am thus removed from the business of others, and 3) they have been engaging in their cultural practices for millennia and how fucking dare I try to change that.

Am I the asshole, here? Please tell me I'm not. If a culture believes in the hypothetical extreme of anally raping young children, am I an asshole for saying "Hold the fucking phone; NO. This should not be happening"? Am I an asshole for speaking against the genital mutilation of children? I look around and see that these are fucking WRONGS, people. And this asshole (in addition to all of his friends) wants nothing more than to convince me that I should shut the fuck up and keep to myself.

I know for a fact I'm not the only one who knows that that's bullshit. We know a wrong when we see it and we don't allow bullshit cultural differences stand in our way. I don't give a fuck who or what you are: assaulting a child is wrong. Period. And yet, these people believe - quite steadfastly - that it's ok because "it's in their culture and they've been doing it for a long time". This mindset needs to fucking DIE. Agreed?
Agreed! You are not the asshole in this. It's the fucktard you are arguing with. I wonder what this person would do if he were visiting this hypothetical culture and was asked to witness this ceremonial rape? Would he agree to watch it? Would allow it to happen or would he attempt to put a stop to it like a decent human being?
Some people are just fucked up!
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04-03-2014, 07:01 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
(03-03-2014 11:36 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(03-03-2014 08:50 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm a bit tipsy right now, and thus, a bit emotional. However, this is a rare occasion when I'm actually blood-boilingly angry.

I got into a spat with an absolute moron on Facebook who believes that the goings on of a particular culture is not for anyone else to judge. Specifically, we were speaking about the various atrocities carried out in the name of culture or religion; such as the mutilation of female genitals, women being forced to cover their faces in accordance with a misogynistic society, children undergoing various other forms of bodily mutilation/alteration, etc.

I think myself to be a fairly decent human being. I have my moments, but overall, I don't generally advocate the unnecessary harm of other people. I believe that slicing off a little girl's clit is wrong. I believe forcing a woman into subjugation is wrong. I believe altering the skull-shape of an infant is wrong. I believe hacking off part of an infant's penis is wrong. I believe, in general, that inflicting non-medical harm upon the body of a non-consenting individual is wrong. Personally, I don't see how a decent individual could view such acts as anything but wrong.

But this moron…this…vacuous fucking dipshit tells me that I'm "arrogant" for passing judgment on these people. By his logic (and this DID enter the conversation), I am not to pass judgment on a culture which (hypothetically) believes it is proper to anally rape infant children in order to appease the gods with their blood-curdling screams. He tells me that I am not in the position to speak against this because 1) I am not in any position to decide what is and what is not "wrong", 2) I was lucky enough to be born into a 1st-world country and am thus removed from the business of others, and 3) they have been engaging in their cultural practices for millennia and how fucking dare I try to change that.

Am I the asshole, here? Please tell me I'm not. If a culture believes in the hypothetical extreme of anally raping young children, am I an asshole for saying "Hold the fucking phone; NO. This should not be happening"? Am I an asshole for speaking against the genital mutilation of children? I look around and see that these are fucking WRONGS, people. And this asshole (in addition to all of his friends) wants nothing more than to convince me that I should shut the fuck up and keep to myself.

I know for a fact I'm not the only one who knows that that's bullshit. We know a wrong when we see it and we don't allow bullshit cultural differences stand in our way. I don't give a fuck who or what you are: assaulting a child is wrong. Period. And yet, these people believe - quite steadfastly - that it's ok because "it's in their culture and they've been doing it for a long time". This mindset needs to fucking DIE. Agreed?
Agreed! You are not the asshole in this. It's the fucktard you are arguing with. I wonder what this person would do if he were visiting this hypothetical culture and was asked to witness this ceremonial rape? Would he agree to watch it? Would allow it to happen or would he attempt to put a stop to it like a decent human being?
Some people are just fucked up!

Just based on what he said to me, I'm inclined to think he'd view it as an anthropological study. (He was really big on that. Telling me that if I study anthropology, I'll understand and be ok with atrocities being carried out for cultural or religious reasons) But who knows; maybe his sense of moral fortitude would kick in and he'd be driven to step in.

Assuming he has any such fortitude, that is.

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05-03-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
Without knowing how the conversation actually went hard to tell if you were being an asshole or not. It is possible to be an asshole and be right. Depends on how you conduct yourself during the debate.

As far as your points, I agree we should not be dismissing bad behavior on cultural differences.
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05-03-2014, 01:22 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
I studied cultural anthro. Of course you have to keep your hands off while you are collecting data or the data will be polluted.

Doesn't mean you have to approve of abusive practices. Watching to see what happens in a particular society does not mean you have to agree with anything.

I am all for respecting and supporting cultural differences and customs. Except for abuse.

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05-03-2014, 01:43 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
I want to grab people that are that shortsighted and stupid, slap them around, and then chain them in my back yard and force them to do yard work.

I mean, almost every culture has had slavery as part of it's history, so they shouldn't have a problem with that. Right? Dodgy

Hell, even their own holy book condones slavery. See, gawd said I have you and as my slave, obedience is the christian thing to do.

Quote: Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Rolleyes

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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05-03-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
(03-03-2014 08:50 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I'm a bit tipsy right now, and thus, a bit emotional. However, this is a rare occasion when I'm actually blood-boilingly angry.

I got into a spat with an absolute moron on Facebook who believes that the goings on of a particular culture is not for anyone else to judge. Specifically, we were speaking about the various atrocities carried out in the name of culture or religion; such as the mutilation of female genitals, women being forced to cover their faces in accordance with a misogynistic society, children undergoing various other forms of bodily mutilation/alteration, etc.

I think myself to be a fairly decent human being. I have my moments, but overall, I don't generally advocate the unnecessary harm of other people. I believe that slicing off a little girl's clit is wrong. I believe forcing a woman into subjugation is wrong. I believe altering the skull-shape of an infant is wrong. I believe hacking off part of an infant's penis is wrong. I believe, in general, that inflicting non-medical harm upon the body of a non-consenting individual is wrong. Personally, I don't see how a decent individual could view such acts as anything but wrong.

But this moron…this…vacuous fucking dipshit tells me that I'm "arrogant" for passing judgment on these people. By his logic (and this DID enter the conversation), I am not to pass judgment on a culture which (hypothetically) believes it is proper to anally rape infant children in order to appease the gods with their blood-curdling screams. He tells me that I am not in the position to speak against this because 1) I am not in any position to decide what is and what is not "wrong", 2) I was lucky enough to be born into a 1st-world country and am thus removed from the business of others, and 3) they have been engaging in their cultural practices for millennia and how fucking dare I try to change that.

Am I the asshole, here? Please tell me I'm not. If a culture believes in the hypothetical extreme of anally raping young children, am I an asshole for saying "Hold the fucking phone; NO. This should not be happening"? Am I an asshole for speaking against the genital mutilation of children? I look around and see that these are fucking WRONGS, people. And this asshole (in addition to all of his friends) wants nothing more than to convince me that I should shut the fuck up and keep to myself.

I know for a fact I'm not the only one who knows that that's bullshit. We know a wrong when we see it and we don't allow bullshit cultural differences stand in our way. I don't give a fuck who or what you are: assaulting a child is wrong. Period. And yet, these people believe - quite steadfastly - that it's ok because "it's in their culture and they've been doing it for a long time". This mindset needs to fucking DIE. Agreed?

So tell dipshit that he can't judge atheists just because we eat babies. Drinking Beverage

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05-03-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: "It's in their culture. You have no right to judge."
I can judge whatever jolly well fuck I want. Especially that without judging cultures they would never change and we would be stuck sacrificing children at altars of stupidity.

As for moral relativism sam harris addressed this question better then I ever could.


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