"It's just how I was raised."
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26-09-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(02-09-2013 12:04 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  "It's just how I was raised." Since moving to Tennessee this an excuse I've heard over and over again for Christian bigotry. They seem to think this excuses and explains everything, and I don't get it.

Can you give an example of Christian bigotry in which "It's just how I was raised" is used?

I have forgiven 90 unprovoked insults directed at me in this forum.

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26-09-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(26-09-2013 05:19 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 12:04 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  "It's just how I was raised." Since moving to Tennessee this an excuse I've heard over and over again for Christian bigotry. They seem to think this excuses and explains everything, and I don't get it.

Can you give an example of Christian bigotry in which "It's just how I was raised" is used?

I can't speak for the OP, but I've heard this from people when defending their homophobia, degrading view of women and minorities, negative view of religions other than their own, classism, etc etc. Obviously some of these have to do with the persons religion, and others may not.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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26-09-2013, 06:49 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(26-09-2013 05:40 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  
(26-09-2013 05:19 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Can you give an example of Christian bigotry in which "It's just how I was raised" is used?

I can't speak for the OP, but I've heard this from people when defending their homophobia, degrading view of women and minorities, negative view of religions other than their own, classism, etc etc. Obviously some of these have to do with the persons religion, and others may not.

That was kinda my point in asking the question. If an atheists defends homophobia by claiming that's how he was raised, is the atheist guilty of Atheist bigotry or Christian bigotry?

I have forgiven 90 unprovoked insults directed at me in this forum.

My Ignore list:
Girlyman - for stalking me around the forum.
EvolutionKills - for being a mental midget not worthy of my time.
Chas- because he debates with insults instead of facts.
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26-09-2013, 10:04 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(26-09-2013 06:49 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(26-09-2013 05:40 PM)Ohio Sky Wrote:  I can't speak for the OP, but I've heard this from people when defending their homophobia, degrading view of women and minorities, negative view of religions other than their own, classism, etc etc. Obviously some of these have to do with the persons religion, and others may not.

That was kinda my point in asking the question. If an atheists defends homophobia by claiming that's how he was raised, is the atheist guilty of Atheist bigotry or Christian bigotry?

He's guilty of bigotry. Did he derive his bigoted view from atheism? Almost certainly not, because atheism is not a religion; it has no dogma, no moral code, no precepts, or people of supreme authority that command them to believe in X or Y or fear the consequences. Religions (including, but not limited to, Christianity) have these things in spades. You can justify racism with the Bible, but not with atheism. You can justify misogyny with the Bible, but not with atheism. Atheists can be racist and sexist, but their underlying reasons are derived outside of their atheism.

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27-09-2013, 07:02 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2013 07:10 AM by Cathym112.)
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(26-09-2013 06:49 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  That was kinda my point in asking the question. If an atheists defends homophobia by claiming that's how he was raised, is the atheist guilty of Atheist bigotry or Christian bigotry?

A seemingly interesting paradox but it is nothing more than a slight of hand. You are trying to make the point that if an atheist defends homosexual's right to marry because "thats just how they were raised", than its no different, philosophically speaking, than a christian that opposes the homosexual's right to marry because "thats just how they were raised."

Unfortunately, Heywood, I see a pattern with a lot of your posts here. You try to make a point based on a paradox that seems profound on the surface, but instead its an idiotic statement that invokes no thought because it actually applies to everyone. Its one of my biggest pet peeves and its like saying.

"I'm just taking it one day at a time." Yeah, you know who else is taking it one day at a time? Everyone. Because that's how time works.

We are all, to some extent, products of our childhood indoctrination. Whether you were taught peace, or hate. I've seen people rising above the hate they have been taught, and I've seen people sink to hate after living a life of peace.

Heywood likes to distract from the actual topics when he posts, while staying on the general topic, which is, how to respond to this argument. 99% of his posts revolve around the concept of misdirection. I see right through you, dude. Magicians do it all the time.

Now, considering the actual topic of the OP, I usually respond to this lack of argument by stating, "how sad." or "You were also raised with the belief of the tooth fairy, santa, the easter bunny, and monsters living under your bed, yet you grew out of those beliefs." or "what i hear you saying, is that you have more attachment to the ritual and community, than what that ritual and community actually represent, is that right?"

The majority of us have read the bible. In it's entirety. And its within those pages that we actually had enough to reject the concepts. I mostly assume that a theist I am speaking to has not read the bible in its entirety. To which I explain to them, that I cannot understand why, they are basing their entire life on its contents, and they haven't actually read them for themselves. Would you invest your life savings in a company that you didn't research?
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27-09-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(26-09-2013 10:04 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(26-09-2013 06:49 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  That was kinda my point in asking the question. If an atheists defends homophobia by claiming that's how he was raised, is the atheist guilty of Atheist bigotry or Christian bigotry?

He's guilty of bigotry. Did he derive his bigoted view from atheism? Almost certainly not, because atheism is not a religion; it has no dogma, no moral code, no precepts, or people of supreme authority that command them to believe in X or Y or fear the consequences. Religions (including, but not limited to, Christianity) have these things in spades. You can justify racism with the Bible, but not with atheism. You can justify misogyny with the Bible, but not with atheism. Atheists can be racist and sexist, but their underlying reasons are derived outside of their atheism.

EvolutionKills - I think you might have misunderstood Heywood. Not surprising, as he is not always very articulate. He posted at length in one of my threads, If god was real, he isn't worthy of worship...

He was creating the obvious philosophical paradox on a conceptual basis that each side of the fence's justification is no better (or different) than the opposing side's justification.

I like the color blue because thats how I was raised vs I like the color red because thats how i was raised.

Each side is justifying its argument with "its just how I was raised", irrespective of the issue at hand (color preference), which makes the sides equal in the conceptual argument
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27-09-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(27-09-2013 07:08 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(26-09-2013 10:04 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  He's guilty of bigotry. Did he derive his bigoted view from atheism? Almost certainly not, because atheism is not a religion; it has no dogma, no moral code, no precepts, or people of supreme authority that command them to believe in X or Y or fear the consequences. Religions (including, but not limited to, Christianity) have these things in spades. You can justify racism with the Bible, but not with atheism. You can justify misogyny with the Bible, but not with atheism. Atheists can be racist and sexist, but their underlying reasons are derived outside of their atheism.

EvolutionKills - I think you might have misunderstood Heywood. Not surprising, as he is not always very articulate. He posted at length in one of my threads, If god was real, he isn't worthy of worship...

He was creating the obvious philosophical paradox on a conceptual basis that each side of the fence's justification is no better (or different) than the opposing side's justification.

I like the color blue because thats how I was raised vs I like the color red because thats how i was raised.

Each side is justifying its argument with "its just how I was raised", irrespective of the issue at hand (color preference), which makes the sides equal in the conceptual argument

Fair enough, I might have misunderstood him. However I still stand by what I said, even if it was ultimately answering a different perceived objection.

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27-09-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
Fair enough, I might have misunderstood him. However I still stand by what I said, even if it was ultimately answering a different perceived objection.
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no doubt! i completely agree with your position!
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27-09-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
(27-09-2013 07:02 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  A seemingly interesting paradox but it is nothing more than a slight of hand. You are trying to make the point that if an atheist defends homosexual's right to marry because "thats just how they were raised", than its no different, philosophically speaking, than a christian that opposes the homosexual's right to marry because "thats just how they were raised."

Unfortunately, Heywood, I see a pattern with a lot of your posts here. You try to make a point based on a paradox that seems profound on the surface, but instead its an idiotic statement that invokes no thought because it actually applies to everyone. Its one of my biggest pet peeves and its like saying.

"I'm just taking it one day at a time." Yeah, you know who else is taking it one day at a time? Everyone. Because that's how time works.

We are all, to some extent, products of our childhood indoctrination. Whether you were taught peace, or hate. I've seen people rising above the hate they have been taught, and I've seen people sink to hate after living a life of peace.

Heywood likes to distract from the actual topics when he posts, while staying on the general topic, which is, how to respond to this argument. 99% of his posts revolve around the concept of misdirection. I see right through you, dude. Magicians do it all the time.

Now, considering the actual topic of the OP, I usually respond to this lack of argument by stating, "how sad." or "You were also raised with the belief of the tooth fairy, santa, the easter bunny, and monsters living under your bed, yet you grew out of those beliefs." or "what i hear you saying, is that you have more attachment to the ritual and community, than what that ritual and community actually represent, is that right?"

The majority of us have read the bible. In it's entirety. And its within those pages that we actually had enough to reject the concepts. I mostly assume that a theist I am speaking to has not read the bible in its entirety. To which I explain to them, that I cannot understand why, they are basing their entire life on its contents, and they haven't actually read them for themselves. Would you invest your life savings in a company that you didn't research?

Sorry Cathym but there is no paradox here. Bigotry is bigotry and its silly to describe something as "Christian bigotry" or "Atheistic bigotry". That's all I was saying. You can put your strawman down now.

I have forgiven 90 unprovoked insults directed at me in this forum.

My Ignore list:
Girlyman - for stalking me around the forum.
EvolutionKills - for being a mental midget not worthy of my time.
Chas- because he debates with insults instead of facts.
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27-09-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: "It's just how I was raised."
Uh, Christians are - on a whole - more bigoted than atheists. Their religion compells them to be. Slavery, homosexuality, etc.

You don't here atheists talking about the sanctity if marriage...

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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