It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
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27-05-2014, 11:44 PM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
I understand what the OP said. Nevertheless my answer remains.

The final sentence is something with which I agree. A car manufacturer recalls and fixes defective designs. So why not an all knowing and wise god? That question recalls Epicurus.

It's all been said.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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28-05-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
Sigh, I am guilty of using the "god doesn't send anyone to hell, it's your choice" comment to a few atheists...hanging my head in shame. Unsure

God loves you SO much that he allows you to do what you want, but choose wisely, or you will suffer eternal punishment. Facepalm

To me, it would only be free will if there were no consequences to either choice. If there's a punishment for choosing wrong, that's called intimidation - a dictator's favorite weapon!

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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28-05-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
(28-05-2014 12:49 AM)CindysRain Wrote:  Sigh, I am guilty of using the "god doesn't send anyone to hell, it's your choice" comment to a few atheists...hanging my head in shame. Unsure

God loves you SO much that he allows you to do what you want, but choose wisely, or you will suffer eternal punishment. Facepalm

To me, it would only be free will if there were no consequences to either choice. If there's a punishment for choosing wrong, that's called intimidation - a dictator's favorite weapon!

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28-05-2014, 02:22 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
(27-05-2014 11:58 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, yes, the literal take home message here is that we are allowed to rape each other, because God wouldn't be able to tell if we really loved him unless we could rape someone but chose not to, and apparently God can't read minds.

This is pretty much my reaction, too.

Even if there were some creator entity, it wouldn't need it's sentient beings to live a certain way. If it did, it's just a jealous petty jackass and not an omnipotent being. It's all circle logic.

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28-05-2014, 03:28 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
How does a perfect being create any object, entity, or system that is flawed or has the ability to be flawed? How does a perfect being make a mistake? Wouldn't the flaw(s) invalidate the beings perfection?

Gods have always been a silly notion.
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28-05-2014, 03:42 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
(28-05-2014 03:28 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  How does a perfect being create any object, entity, or system that is flawed or has the ability to be flawed? How does a perfect being make a mistake? Wouldn't the flaw(s) invalidate the beings perfection?

Gods have always been a silly notion.

'Perfection' is another silly notion.

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28-05-2014, 06:07 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
I disagree perfection is a silly notion. As an idea it offers us something for which to strive. The idea or ideal of perfection can help us improve.

That some people mis use this idea and remove it from the creature that created it, us, is unwise.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-05-2014, 06:18 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
(28-05-2014 06:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I disagree perfection is a silly notion. As an idea it offers us something for which to strive. The idea or ideal of perfection can help us improve.

That some people mis use this idea and remove it from the creature that created it, us, is unwise.

Perfection is silly when attempting to apply it as a descriptor (especially to a facet of supposedly objective reality), because perfection is so subjective. So you label a god concept as perfect, what does that mean? A perfectly loving god cannot also be perfectly hateful, and vice versa. It leads to nonsensical paradoxes and is also easily misused by those who enjoy projecting their desires onto something else, and labeling that something as 'perfect' to help reinforce their position/views/beliefs by proxy.

If you were to ask me for a list of features that would make up a 'perfect' motorcycle, and then you went and asked War Horse the exact same question, you'd get two very different lists. Q.E.D.

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28-05-2014, 06:31 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
I agree.

However, I have been trying to perfect my drum technique for decades. And the pursuit has served me well.

I am not there yet....

Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-05-2014, 06:36 AM
RE: It's not god's fault, it's ours because we have free will
(28-05-2014 06:31 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I agree.

However, I have been trying to perfect my drum technique for decades. And the pursuit has served me well.

I am not there yet....

Wink

And arguably, nor will you or anyone else. Tongue

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