It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
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02-07-2015, 07:52 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 07:08 AM)Eva Wrote:  Another interesting article from The Independent which highlights how mismanaged the looming referendum is. People need time to consider what they are voting on and to do that they need all the information. And whatever is decided on Sunday and however that eventually pans out, the Government can wash it's hands of it and say 'well you voted for it'.

Independent Greece Article

I was also led to believe that referendums were not meant to be on fiscal policy so that would make this unconstitutional. Although maybe I have that wrong and someone more knowledgeable than I on such matters can correct me.

As far as I know, the referendum was proven to be fully constitutional.

As for the article, I feel like it is simply repeating a silly right-wing argument, which is simply an appeal to emotion. "Oh no, do not let the people disagree, it will destroy our nation and our ethnic unity blah blah". There is a very fun saying going around on facebook these days which goes like "With this referendum, they want to divide Greek people. Greek people! Who were always united in all the civil wars." Tongue

Suddenly everyone is afraid of taking responsibility. They haven't realized that they are already responsible by having voted all these years.

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02-07-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
Dunno what went wrong post got freked up. Oh well.
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02-07-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 07:46 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Easy to say if you live in Denmark Tongue

Do you want to know what the "good life" that the past generations worked so hard for is?
Well, I gotta admit, they beat the dictatorship and gifted us with free education (the fact that education isn't practically free though is a whole different chapter). But if no taxation of the Greek church's extravagant wealth, people dying in hospitals because doctors were bored/underpaid or equipment was old, no meritocracy, an extremely corrupted legal system and schools filled with religious symbols, prayers and ridiculously written books sound like something I should appreciate, well, no thank you. And I'm sure I haven't mentioned everything.

The people who protested against the dictatorship, the ones whose friends died in that fight, they are the ones who ended up ruling the country all these years. There's something extremely wrong with that.


What I believe is the problem is that Greece has been a free country since 1830 and from then on until 1974 when we first had actual democracy (that is 144 years) it's been through war with Turkey, then war to reclaim our lands, then WWI, then the huge surge of immigrants, then a dictatorship, then WWII, then a civil war with prosecutions and executions and finally another dictatorship.

Our history with democracy has only lasted 40 years. Back in the 80s, people thought that the country was finally a modern, industrialized member of the first world for the first time. That was a false sense of security provided by the government who sustained our well-being with more and more loans they couldn't handle. I can only hope that through this experience, we will mature as a people and maybe, someday, we'll be able to stand on our feet again.

I do hope so too. Sadly I'm not too sure it's all up to you guys. Unless there's a revolution brewing. Again I only have my own Danish perspective on stuff like this. But I don't really see much changing when governments get to power. Mostly things just continue and changes happening are small and by and large not too large in the big picture. But i freaking hope that will not be the case for Greece.

Hmmm come to think of it. What is the Greek name for Greece. . . hold on. . .

Hmm wiki gives the following, is that correct?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...Ellada.ogg
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02-07-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
And something slightly relevant.

Since I only have a degree in the English Language and at least 50% of Greeks speak fluent Greek, thus rendering my degree practically useless, I decided that maybe I should go study photography, since I'm pretty good at it and I'd love to work as a photographer.

I researched how I could get into that college, and I saw that they only accept 2 people (with a uni degree) per year (and I'd also have to take an exam). The problem is that there are about 100 people every year trying to get in there and I'd have to be extremely lucky to get in.

And as if that wasn't enough, my cousins informed me that in such cases, there are some secret "codes" that few people know and you can only get in if you leave a "hint" in your paper. This is for professors who know people who want to get in college and they tell them what they have to write in their papers as a "password" to get in. Grades, of course, don't matter.

This is the "inheritance" from the previous generation that I'm asked to pay for.

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02-07-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 08:02 AM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  
(02-07-2015 07:46 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Easy to say if you live in Denmark Tongue

Do you want to know what the "good life" that the past generations worked so hard for is?
Well, I gotta admit, they beat the dictatorship and gifted us with free education (the fact that education isn't practically free though is a whole different chapter). But if no taxation of the Greek church's extravagant wealth, people dying in hospitals because doctors were bored/underpaid or equipment was old, no meritocracy, an extremely corrupted legal system and schools filled with religious symbols, prayers and ridiculously written books sound like something I should appreciate, well, no thank you. And I'm sure I haven't mentioned everything.

The people who protested against the dictatorship, the ones whose friends died in that fight, they are the ones who ended up ruling the country all these years. There's something extremely wrong with that.


What I believe is the problem is that Greece has been a free country since 1830 and from then on until 1974 when we first had actual democracy (that is 144 years) it's been through war with Turkey, then war to reclaim our lands, then WWI, then the huge surge of immigrants, then a dictatorship, then WWII, then a civil war with prosecutions and executions and finally another dictatorship.

Our history with democracy has only lasted 40 years. Back in the 80s, people thought that the country was finally a modern, industrialized member of the first world for the first time. That was a false sense of security provided by the government who sustained our well-being with more and more loans they couldn't handle. I can only hope that through this experience, we will mature as a people and maybe, someday, we'll be able to stand on our feet again.

I do hope so too. Sadly I'm not too sure it's all up to you guys. Unless there's a revolution brewing. Again I only have my own Danish perspective on stuff like this. But I don't really see much changing when governments get to power. Mostly things just continue and changes happening are small and by and large not too large in the big picture. But i freaking hope that will not be the case for Greece.

Hmmm come to think of it. What is the Greek name for Greece. . . hold on. . .

Hmm wiki gives the following, is that correct?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...Ellada.ogg

Yup, that's it! But what are you trying to say?

And I do agree that it's mostly not up to us. Governments will be governments.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
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02-07-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 08:08 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(02-07-2015 08:02 AM)Nishi Karano Kaze Wrote:  I do hope so too. Sadly I'm not too sure it's all up to you guys. Unless there's a revolution brewing. Again I only have my own Danish perspective on stuff like this. But I don't really see much changing when governments get to power. Mostly things just continue and changes happening are small and by and large not too large in the big picture. But i freaking hope that will not be the case for Greece.

Hmmm come to think of it. What is the Greek name for Greece. . . hold on. . .

Hmm wiki gives the following, is that correct?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...Ellada.ogg

Yup, that's it! But what are you trying to say?

And I do agree that it's mostly not up to us. Governments will be governments.
I think I might just be on to rambling at this point. The thing about what Greece calls itself just hit me. I do that sometimes. . . I might be getting old.
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02-07-2015, 09:51 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
Greece seems like such a lovely place. I hope that all the political shit gets worked out and the people aren't screwed. Or is it that far beyond hope?

It is shitty that later generations may be made responsible for the bad decisions of previous generations. That's just crap. Undecided

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02-07-2015, 10:15 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
I do find it interesting that the banks were forgiven far more debt than what Greece currently owes yet erasing this debt would end the world and crash europe.

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02-07-2015, 12:36 PM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 07:52 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  There is a very fun saying going around on facebook these days which goes like "With this referendum, they want to divide Greek people. Greek people! Who were always united in all the civil wars." Tongue

Brilliant! Smile

Yes go study photography while you're young and if Greece is making it hard for you go elsewhere it'll be Greece's loss. I bet you'd love the Netherlands.

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03-07-2015, 03:18 AM
RE: It's official: Referendum in Greece on bailout terms
(02-07-2015 08:07 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I decided that maybe I should go study photography, since I'm pretty good at it and I'd love to work as a photographer.


Being in entertainment, I know many many photographers. The industry is dying. There is no work anymore because people have a phone with a camera everywhere they go.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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