"It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
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12-11-2012, 01:57 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
(11-11-2012 11:35 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "we're all sinners, we all deserve to die yesterday and go to hell, the fact we're even breathing today is sheer grace from god."


It hurts my brain trying to imagine why people believe in this shit.
Please, someone explain to me how an unborn baby has sinned??
Because some whore a couple thousand years ago took a bite of a forbidden apple??
Fuck off.

It's okay earmuffy.. I mean just as I was watching.. I started hearing this voice.. (which could be non other than God) telling me that stabbing you 20 times would be fun for me.... and best of all.. It's God's will. Hobo Laughat

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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12-11-2012, 06:05 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
(11-11-2012 10:57 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I went into this thinking he'd be a crank, then for the first minute and a half I was like, "This is actually a great argument." Then he started in on sinner stuff and lost me for a while. Then he got me back. It's a pretty lucid argument. I think the point that God takes every single life is a good point. He's right that God using humans as an instrument is a complex moral argument. I think the chief problem lies with those that claim God willed them (for a specific purpose) who are really just talking out of their ass. I mean, in the end, by this logic, God did will them just as he wills rapists to rape and all the rest, but I think, by this logic, he could will someone to murder someone and that person could say, "He told me to do it because it's an awesome thing to do," and God would be like, "Ugh, dude, you don't know me like that. I made you a crazy person. Real talk." It just leaves a lot of room for justifying murder (which by this logic might be moot anyway).

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Who cares if it's "lucid"? This guy is convincing to you because he wasn't drunk when he answered the question?

If you start with the premise that God takes every life (so it's alright for him to decide how every life is taken), then you can suppose that anyone dying anytime for any reason is perfectly okay. I get that. So why would us murdering people be wrong? After all, if I were to kill you, then it was fine because God meant for you to die (because He ultimately decided it was your time, right?). God can't get angry at me for fulfilling His will, which it obviously was because he knew you were going to die and let it happen, and we're under the presupposition that He decides when anyone will die. Even though it was by my hand, it was His doing because we've assumed that He kills every person.

OR we can imagine that people can kill against God's will, in which case God isn't in charge of when people die... and that means the first premise of your argument (and his) is false and you can't reach the conclusion that way.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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12-11-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
(11-11-2012 11:35 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  "we're all sinners, we all deserve to die yesterday and go to hell, the fact we're even breathing today is sheer grace from god."


It hurts my brain trying to imagine why people believe in this shit.
Please, someone explain to me how an unborn baby has sinned??
Because some whore a couple thousand years ago took a bite of a forbidden apple??
Fuck off.
Heretic. It was a fig, not an apple.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 07:27 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
OK, I have a new Evil Plan.

If I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I will go on a murderous rampage in the name of God. I will make sure that everyone knows why I went on the rampage - it was because God willed it.

I will be the Hammer of God.

It will be doing my part to bring more disrepute on this kind of absurd argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
Hey, Starcrash.

Uhh, I don't have a dog in this fight. There is no premise to my argument. I was commenting on his argument. If I correct an essay and comment on the strength of the argument, that doesn't make it my argument and it doesn't mean I subscribe to it.

Quote:Who cares if it's "lucid"? This guy is convincing to you because he wasn't drunk when he answered the question?

I care if he's lucid. I care if anyone can offer a strong, coherent argument because it's something I can engage with. Fred Phelps, for example, fires projectile diareah from his mouth when he speaks. It's impossible to engage with him because it stinks, it get's in your eyes, it ruins your clothes... This man is intelligent, regardless of whether or not I subscribe to his point of view.

And where did I say he convinced me of anything? I said the opposite actually. Being able to understand or even appreciate someone's argument does not mean one has converted.

This idea that everyone who has a different opinion than one's one is stupid, insane, or full of shit is the worst kind of dismissive nonsense. I don't agree with this guy's assertions. But I appreciate the strength of his argument and I appreciate the internal consistency of his argument.

Quote:If you start with the premise that God takes every life (so it's alright for him to decide how every life is taken), then you can suppose that anyone dying anytime for any reason is perfectly okay. I get that. So why would us murdering people be wrong? After all, if I were to kill you, then it was fine because God meant for you to die (because He ultimately decided it was your time, right?). God can't get angry at me for fulfilling His will, which it obviously was because he knew you were going to die and let it happen, and we're under the presupposition that He decides when anyone will die. Even though it was by my hand, it was His doing because we've assumed that He kills every person.

I said exactly that.

Quote:OR we can imagine that people can kill against God's will, in which case God isn't in charge of when people die... and that means the first premise of your argument (and his) is false and you can't reach the conclusion that way.

I can imagine such an argument. It makes more sense to me in terms of the idea of God bestowing man with free will. Again, I have no argument here other than, "This guy presented a strong, if not controversial, argument." I make no claims about the nature or existence of God.

Hey, Chas.

Quote:It will be doing my part to bring more disrepute on this kind of absurd argument.

You won't be bringing this guy's argument into disrepute. There is nothing incompatible between your proposed rampage and this man's argument.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 08:05 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
For a guy without a dog in this fight, Ghost, you sure keep barking. Big Grin

What makes this YouTube idiot idiotic is the concurrent context. It is not god getting up to a bunch of mischief, but the speakers for god; that's what he's justifying. And he can go screw.

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12-11-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
Sup, Cantor.

You can take the dog out of the fight, but you can't take the fight out of the dog Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 08:35 AM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
(12-11-2012 07:41 AM)Ghost Wrote:  
Quote:It will be doing my part to bring more disrepute on this kind of absurd argument.

You won't be bringing this guy's argument into disrepute. There is nothing incompatible between your proposed rampage and this man's argument.

And that is exactly my point.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
Starcrash:

Just because God willed it doesn't make it not a sin.

In fact, God wills sin because it's necessary. Meaning - we have to sin in order to fulfill Christ's purpose. Moreover, because of the mandate of sin, and since God is a God of order, there has to be incidents of sin.

More simply, since God created sin, sins have to be committed. Now, this is by no choice of the person, obviously (because of God's will).

God had to identify sins in order for someone to sin. Since morality is relative, there had to be a standard for what was a sin and what wasn't a sin.

God created the standard and made people completely aware of that standard through written laws. So, now the necessity of sin could be fulfilled with the breaking of a moral code that was identified by God.

I know what you're thinking, "What about before the 10 commandments?"

Like I said, morality was relative, so there was no standard of sinning and sins were relative to the society and/or convictions of God. People first became aware of sin when God implanted His image on people.

The 10 Commandments made sinning evident for that society.

By God making sinning evident, sin was being committed, and God's purpose fulfilled.

I know what you're thinking again, "Seems silly to set up a standard just to purposefully have it broken so that you can have a way to counteract it instead of just not having it to begin with."

Yes, I get that. But, again... God has a plan for the world... the universe... life... humans... everything - and it included sinning humans and Christ. What is the end game for that plan? I don't know.

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12-11-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: "It's right for God to slaughter...anytime he pleases"
Hey, Chas.

I don't follow.

Hey, King.

Quote:In fact, God wills sin because it's necessary. Meaning - we have to sin
in order to fulfill Christ's purpose. Moreover, because of the mandate
of sin, and since God is a God of order, there has to be incidents of
sin.

Wacky. I've never heard that before. Does this preclude the idea of free will in your eyes? Do you see it as a sort of clockwork universe kind of thing?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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