Jahovah Witness debating
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10-02-2014, 09:59 PM
Rainbow Jahovah Witness debating
Hi,
(I'll keep this as short as I can)

Has anyone got experience debating or even objectively discussing religion etc with a JW?

I ask because that is what I'm about to do. In the last few days I have spend about 2 1/2 hours questioning JWs (who have taken to standing in the street distributing flyers in my city) about their perspective/beliefs.
The questioning was very light hearted - I was really just curious to know why they do what they do, but the more I listened the more I found contradictions in their agenda/beliefs.

To cut a long story short a senior 'priest' of the JWs gave me his email address, so I emailed him requesting a list of books/canons/bibles/passages that the JWs consider 'good' and the ones that are considered heretical/blasphemous ^_^
He replied, with a link to one of their websites.
(http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101990131)
Now once I have a clearer understanding of what makes a JW and what doesn't I intend to take him up on his invitation to pay him a visit.

As it stands I recon I could tear his doctrine to pieces using other bibles but I don't want to do that because I expect this will just cause him to stop listening/thinking..
So Im wondering if anyone has any experience dealing with this kind of close-nit community/sect/cult?

What are the dos and donts?
Are there any uncomfortable scriptures out there that are recognized but controversial to the JW community? ...I'm not even going to raise 'false prophecy' as I recon that will either piss them off or cause them to just mentally brand me an anti-jahovist (or whatever they call it) ^_^

The priest (who I gather is something of a leader of their community) has invited me to stop by on his 'round' this friday... Hopefully I will find an awkward verse or two by then to pull out if he decides to attempt to convert/prostetise me.

cheers.
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10-02-2014, 10:09 PM
RE: Jahovah Witness debating
I would just leave them alone. They hate going out having to knock on peoples doors but the church makes them do it. Trying to argue with them is like hitting a cripple with a sackful of sick kittens.

I just take their handouts and wish them a nice day. Maybe have a chat about the weather or other inane topics, and off they toddle. I had my pet lamb here one day and their kids played with it for a bit and I let them feed it so they must have been here for a good 15 minutes and never mentioned religion once.
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10-02-2014, 10:21 PM
RE: Jahovah Witness debating
(10-02-2014 10:09 PM)Pippen Wrote:  I would just leave them alone. They hate going out having to knock on peoples doors but the church makes them do it. Trying to argue with them is like hitting a cripple with a sackful of sick kittens.

I just take their handouts and wish them a nice day. Maybe have a chat about the weather or other inane topics, and off they toddle. I had my pet lamb here one day and their kids played with it for a bit and I let them feed it so they must have been here for a good 15 minutes and never mentioned religion once.

That is all the more reason too engage with them in my opinion... if they dont want to be there doing it then shouldn't I/we allow them the opportunity to come to the realisation that they are preaching fear and lies when they could be living meaningful lives instead?

Also I don't want to argue with them... I tend to just ask questions I know people cannot answer without undermining their own point/stance/objective.
Arguing achieves nothing, but in my experience a hand full of loaded questions can achieve a lot. ^_^

My problem is that I don't fully understand their dogma, and I dont want to back up their proposition by throwing something at them that they agree with Wink
...and trawling through their literature feels like slamming my head between a door and a doorframe. Surely there is an ex-JW in here? ^_^
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10-02-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: Jahovah Witness debating
(10-02-2014 09:59 PM)Beat Scientist Wrote:  Hi,
(I'll keep this as short as I can)

Has anyone got experience debating or even objectively discussing religion etc with a JW?

I ask because that is what I'm about to do. In the last few days I have spend about 2 1/2 hours questioning JWs (who have taken to standing in the street distributing flyers in my city) about their perspective/beliefs.
The questioning was very light hearted - I was really just curious to know why they do what they do, but the more I listened the more I found contradictions in their agenda/beliefs.

To cut a long story short a senior 'priest' of the JWs gave me his email address, so I emailed him requesting a list of books/canons/bibles/passages that the JWs consider 'good' and the ones that are considered heretical/blasphemous ^_^
He replied, with a link to one of their websites.
(http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101990131)
Now once I have a clearer understanding of what makes a JW and what doesn't I intend to take him up on his invitation to pay him a visit.

As it stands I recon I could tear his doctrine to pieces using other bibles but I don't want to do that because I expect this will just cause him to stop listening/thinking..
So Im wondering if anyone has any experience dealing with this kind of close-nit community/sect/cult?

What are the dos and donts?
Are there any uncomfortable scriptures out there that are recognized but controversial to the JW community? ...I'm not even going to raise 'false prophecy' as I recon that will either piss them off or cause them to just mentally brand me an anti-jahovist (or whatever they call it) ^_^

The priest (who I gather is something of a leader of their community) has invited me to stop by on his 'round' this friday... Hopefully I will find an awkward verse or two by then to pull out if he decides to attempt to convert/prostetise me.

cheers.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-02-2014, 10:58 PM
RE: Jahovah Witness debating
(10-02-2014 09:59 PM)Beat Scientist Wrote:  What are the dos and donts?

You'll never get through to a JW by giving them field advantage. If you start trying to show contradictions in their texts, he'll come back with a million apologetics as to why there is no contradiction - this is what this guy does for a living, and he has legions of JWs to draw on in the rare event you come up with something novel.

If you just feel like you must debate him, perhaps start instead with comparative religion, and explain why god ideas in general are myths, and why we know it from history. Even if he has thought about this, he won't have a good response. He'll end up leaning on trickery of the devil or similar claptrap, that deep down, he probably doesn't feel comfortable with. He'll never admit defeat, but some thing like that has the ability to plant a seed of doubt.

edit: under no circumstance allow him to start dragging it back to his texts. He's just trying to regain footing.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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10-02-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: Jahovah Witness debating
(10-02-2014 10:33 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 09:59 PM)Beat Scientist Wrote:  Hi,
(I'll keep this as short as I can)

Has anyone got experience debating or even objectively discussing religion etc with a JW?

I ask because that is what I'm about to do. In the last few days I have spend about 2 1/2 hours questioning JWs (who have taken to standing in the street distributing flyers in my city) about their perspective/beliefs.
The questioning was very light hearted - I was really just curious to know why they do what they do, but the more I listened the more I found contradictions in their agenda/beliefs.

To cut a long story short a senior 'priest' of the JWs gave me his email address, so I emailed him requesting a list of books/canons/bibles/passages that the JWs consider 'good' and the ones that are considered heretical/blasphemous ^_^
He replied, with a link to one of their websites.
(http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101990131)
Now once I have a clearer understanding of what makes a JW and what doesn't I intend to take him up on his invitation to pay him a visit.

As it stands I recon I could tear his doctrine to pieces using other bibles but I don't want to do that because I expect this will just cause him to stop listening/thinking..
So Im wondering if anyone has any experience dealing with this kind of close-nit community/sect/cult?

What are the dos and donts?
Are there any uncomfortable scriptures out there that are recognized but controversial to the JW community? ...I'm not even going to raise 'false prophecy' as I recon that will either piss them off or cause them to just mentally brand me an anti-jahovist (or whatever they call it) ^_^

The priest (who I gather is something of a leader of their community) has invited me to stop by on his 'round' this friday... Hopefully I will find an awkward verse or two by then to pull out if he decides to attempt to convert/prostetise me.

cheers.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

haha Cheers Bucky Ball!
I was actually reading that earlier. I dont want to pull the 1914 fail unless I have to because it renders their leader a false prophet and thus by their own definition makes them (JWs) anti-christs (or whatever the term was).

I was also shocked to see that the three JWs I spoke to today did not realise about the previous false predictions/claims. But I also dont want to ask that question because I asked it of a female JW and dont want it to reflect badly on her. - As i did not realise how badly women are viewed in the JW community when speaking to her.
Effectively she is not allowed to preach (or even instruct men an any serious/religious matter), but my questioning rendered her answers kind of 'preachy', the male of the group joined us at that point hehe.

So yeah, I will definitely be undermining the leader by asserting how insightful and educational the young woman's replies were before inviting him to do just as well Wink
I'll save all those false prophesies and JW pedophilia ring court cases for a rainy day ((I expect Friday to be sunny))


cheers again!
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