Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
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26-07-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:03 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 09:38 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  More special pleading. A mass shooting happens in NOT a gun-free zone with police and open-carry activists, and they don't stop it, prevent it, or deter the shooter.

"Good guys with guns" stopping mass shootings is a myth. Drinking Beverage

That wasn't a mass shooting, or as the FBI labels it, an active shooter. That was a sniper attack. The shooter used a barricaded, elevated position with a scoped weapon, on an outdoor location. Mass shootings, or active shooter events, take place in confined, populated areas where people have no or little opportunity to escape.

Mass shootings and active shooter are completely different definitions. I get annual training in responding to an active shooter situation. An active shooter situation does not require any casualties. And an ongoing sniper attack is most certainly considered an active shooter situation. And a mass shooting does not require an active shooter. Shooter could have been long gone before the mass shooting is even discovered. Do you even bother to check your definitions before you just fart out bullshit?

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26-07-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 09:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And all you have to do is use your head.

Let's look at that article that shows a whopping 4 shootings stopped in 2014 and compare that with the total number of mass shootings that year (http://www.shootingtracker.com).

4 stopped, 277 reported for a rate of 1.4%.

Once again, the "good guys with guns" myth is more fiction than reality. We have more guns than any other other country and more "good guys with guns" and more mass shootings. What do other countries with better regulations and restrictions on firearms and firearm owners have? Far fewer mass shootings.

Keep on trying to cherry-pick though. Consider

Phony statistics. The FBI says that only 160 mass shootings occurred between 2000-2013. That list of 277 for 2014 would include things like gang shootings, drug violence, and domestic violence. Barely any of that list would fit the FBI's definition of active shooter.

Cherry-picking your sources and definitions (I should say that you are cherry-picking around my sources. The FBI definition of a mass shooting is not the only one that exists) to dismiss arguments that invalidate your bullshit, is what a religious person would do.

Here, I'll tell you what, I'll re-highlight the statistic about the US having 5% of the world's population and 31% of the world's mass shootings since 1966. Once the US has a mass shooting rate that is equivalent with other first world countries because so many mass shootings are being stopped by "good guys with guns," I'll start to believe that bullshit is rooted in fact.

Your wild wild west ammosexual religion is founded upon a bullshit myth.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-07-2016, 10:17 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
Fakn shit, another thread turned into a gun debate.

You are all idiots , every single one of you that uses every opportunity to blow his horn about gun control , whether you are pro or anti gun control , you know that , right?

All we need now is that spastic to show up with his tourrettes to make this a well rounded package of Muricans turning something completely unrelated into their fakn life or death debate over guns.

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26-07-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:12 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:08 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Phony statistics. The FBI says that only 160 mass shootings occurred between 2000-2013. That list of 277 for 2014 would include things like gang shootings, drug violence, and domestic violence. Barely any of that list would fit the FBI's definition of active shooter.

Cherry-picking your sources and definitions (I should say that you are cherry-picking around my sources. The FBI definition of a mass shooting is not the only one that exists) to dismiss arguments that invalidate your bullshit, is what a religious person would do.

Here, I'll tell you what, I'll re-highlight the statistic about the US having 5% of the world's population and 31% of the world's mass shootings since 1966. Once the US has a mass shooting rate that is equivalent with other first world countries because so many mass shootings are being stopped by "good guys with guns," I'll start to believe that bullshit is rooted in fact.

Your wild wild west ammosexual religion is founded upon a bullshit myth.

Please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a "mass shooting" at a house party of gang members, or a drug deal gone bad at 2am in a back alley, or a domestic violence situation in a private home?

And when you fail to answer that, please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a mass shooting in a gun free zone like the Orlando shooting, or the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting or the Sandy Hook school shooting (all places where I would have to leave my gun in the car or at home).

Now you see why "mass shootings" are not routinely stopped by people like me with concealed carry permits.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-07-2016, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 10:38 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:21 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:12 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Cherry-picking your sources and definitions (I should say that you are cherry-picking around my sources. The FBI definition of a mass shooting is not the only one that exists) to dismiss arguments that invalidate your bullshit, is what a religious person would do.

Here, I'll tell you what, I'll re-highlight the statistic about the US having 5% of the world's population and 31% of the world's mass shootings since 1966. Once the US has a mass shooting rate that is equivalent with other first world countries because so many mass shootings are being stopped by "good guys with guns," I'll start to believe that bullshit is rooted in fact.

Your wild wild west ammosexual religion is founded upon a bullshit myth.


Please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a "mass shooting" at a house party of gang members, or a drug deal gone bad at 2am in a back alley, or a domestic violence situation in a private home?

And when you fail to answer that, please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a mass shooting in a gun free zone like the Orlando shooting, or the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting or the Sandy Hook school shooting (all places where I would have to leave my gun in the car or at home).

Now you see why "mass shootings" are not routinely stopped by people like me with concealed carry permits.

Holy fuck, it's like talking to a brick wall. You do realize it's MY point that all of the incidents of mass shootings you highlight are examples of how the "good guy with a gun" trope is a myth, right?

America has more guns than any other nation and more mass shootings. So despite the fact that other countries have gangs and domestic violence, what they don't have are the mass shootings and elevated intentional homicide rates (elevated in that they have intentional homicide rates that are unusually high for being a first world country).

Your carrying of a concealed weapon means precisely dick to me. Conceal carry or open carry, neither are stopping or deterring mass shootings. How do I know this? Because the US has more of them than any other nation despite having more people carrying guns. It's bulshit.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-07-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:17 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Fakn shit, another thread turned into a gun debate.

You are all idiots , every single one of you that uses every opportunity to blow his horn about gun control , whether you are pro or anti gun control , you know that , right?

All we need now is that spastic to show up with his tourrettes to make this a well rounded package of Muricans turning something completely unrelated into their fakn life or death debate over guns.

To be fair, this is not really a derail. The thread was started by someone who is extremely pro-gun, and probably for the purpose of supporting his side of that debate. Because whenever there's a mass shooting, the anti-gun crowd says "You never see this kind of thing with knives" -- and guess what -- now you do see exactly that. I think this is very relevant to the whole gun/anti-gun debate, and that's the reason why the thread exists.
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26-07-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:21 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:12 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Cherry-picking your sources and definitions (I should say that you are cherry-picking around my sources. The FBI definition of a mass shooting is not the only one that exists) to dismiss arguments that invalidate your bullshit, is what a religious person would do.

Here, I'll tell you what, I'll re-highlight the statistic about the US having 5% of the world's population and 31% of the world's mass shootings since 1966. Once the US has a mass shooting rate that is equivalent with other first world countries because so many mass shootings are being stopped by "good guys with guns," I'll start to believe that bullshit is rooted in fact.

Your wild wild west ammosexual religion is founded upon a bullshit myth.

Please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a "mass shooting" at a house party of gang members, or a drug deal gone bad at 2am in a back alley, or a domestic violence situation in a private home?

And when you fail to answer that, please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a mass shooting in a gun free zone like the Orlando shooting, or the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting or the Sandy Hook school shooting (all places where I would have to leave my gun in the car or at home).

Now you see why "mass shootings" are not routinely stopped by people like me with concealed carry permits.

And like I said:
Here, I'll tell you what, I'll re-highlight the statistic about the US having 5% of the world's population and 31% of the world's mass shootings since 1966. Once the US has a mass shooting rate that is equivalent with other first world countries because so many mass shootings are being stopped by "good guys with guns," I'll start to believe that bullshit is rooted in fact.

If you want to parade about the "good guys with guns stop and/or deter mass shootings" line, then there are very easy to find statistics that should back it up. The US has more guns and more "good guys with guns" than any other country, so we should have FEWER mass shootings and a LOWER intentional homicide rate than other first world countries. But neither observation is true.

In short, it's the converse that appears to be true. That the US having more guns and more "good guys with guns" has resulted in the US being less safe than it should be given its first world status.

You probably don't understand why I keep putting "good guys with guns" in quotes either. Everyone seems to believe that they are the "good guy" in their situation. So it was a "good guy with a gun" that shot the cops in Dallas and a "good guy" in Baton Rouge and a "good guy" in Orlando. In their minds, they were "good" people doing the "right thing."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-07-2016, 10:37 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 10:45 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:27 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:21 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a "mass shooting" at a house party of gang members, or a drug deal gone bad at 2am in a back alley, or a domestic violence situation in a private home?

And when you fail to answer that, please explain how a concealed carrier like myself could stop a mass shooting in a gun free zone like the Orlando shooting, or the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooting or the Sandy Hook school shooting (all places where I would have to leave my gun in the car or at home).

Now you see why "mass shootings" are not routinely stopped by people like me with concealed carry permits.

Holy fuck, it's like talking to a brick wall. You do realize it's MY point that all of the incidents of mass shootings you highlight are examples of how the "good guy with a gun" trope is a myth, right?

America has more guns than any other nation and more mass shootings. So despite the fact that other countries have gangs and domestic violence, what they don't have are the mass shootings are elevated intentional homicide rates.

Your carrying of a concealed weapon means precisely dick to me. Conceal carry or open carry, neither are stopping or deterring mass shootings. How do I know this? Because the US has more of them than any other nation despite having more people carrying guns. It's bulshit.

If that is indeed your point, then I concede. You made it sound as if you believe that it could never or has never happened. A good guy with a gun has a very small chance of stopping a mass shooting, for the simple fact that mass shootings generally occur where a good guy with a gun is unlikely to be or the shooter is out of reach.

But I want to reiterate the point that the majority of mass shootings are not "active shooter events." The lone wolf type that goes into his job, or a hospital, or a school, etc is still very rare. The majority of "mass shootings" are drug/gang related or domestic violence (looney shoots his family). Although tragic, they are not listed by the FBI as true mass shootings/active shooter events.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-07-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:37 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:27 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Holy fuck, it's like talking to a brick wall. You do realize it's MY point that all of the incidents of mass shootings you highlight are examples of how the "good guy with a gun" trope is a myth, right?

America has more guns than any other nation and more mass shootings. So despite the fact that other countries have gangs and domestic violence, what they don't have are the mass shootings are elevated intentional homicide rates.

Your carrying of a concealed weapon means precisely dick to me. Conceal carry or open carry, neither are stopping or deterring mass shootings. How do I know this? Because the US has more of them than any other nation despite having more people carrying guns. It's bulshit.

If that is indeed your point, then I concede. A good guy with a gun has a very small chance of stopping a mass shooting, for the simple fact that mass shootings generally occur where a good guy with a gun is unlikely to be or the shooter is out of reach.

But I want to reiterate the point that the majority of mass shootings are not "active shooter events." The lone wolf type that goes into his job, or a hospital, or a school, etc is still very rare. The majority of "mass shootings" are drug/gang related or domestic violence (looney shoots his family).

"If that is indeed your point, then I concede. A good guy with a gun has a very small chance of stopping a mass shooting, for the simple fact that mass shootings generally occur where a good guy with a gun is unlikely to be or the shooter is out of reach. "

It is one of the points I am making, yes. "Good guys with guns" aren't stopping or deterring mass shootings in the US, and most of them are not the VA tech or Sandy Hook type events.

The point, continued, is that other first world countries ALSO have gangs and domestic violence, but they DON'T see the elevated rates of mass shootings nor the unusually high intentional homicide rate, given that they are first world countries.

"But I want to reiterate the point that the majority of mass shootings are not "active shooter events." The lone wolf type that goes into his job, or a hospital, or a school, etc is still very rare. The majority of "mass shootings" are drug/gang related or domestic violence (looney shoots his family)."

And restrictions and regulations that help keep guns out of the hands of these people, will help prevent the lone wolf-type attacks from being so deadly. Will they still find a way to kill someone if they are determined to do so? Yes, just like a suicidal person will still try to commit suicide. But with guns, the efficiency of killing en masse in a short span of time is elevated. So, we focus on guns to try and limit access to an easy and effective means of mass killing.

Someone will still make bombs and someone else will still drive a truck into a crowd. But maybe they will blow themselves up making the bomb or be caught by the FBI buying the supplies. Knowing that someone might drive into a congregation of people, means preparing concrete barriers to limit the ability of the truck to penetrate into the crowd. But the fact that people will still try and kill or hurt one another is NOT a valid argument to NOT have better regulations and restrictions on firearms.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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26-07-2016, 10:47 AM
RE: Japan - 15 killed in knife attack
(26-07-2016 10:29 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 10:17 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Fakn shit, another thread turned into a gun debate.

You are all idiots , every single one of you that uses every opportunity to blow his horn about gun control , whether you are pro or anti gun control , you know that , right?

All we need now is that spastic to show up with his tourrettes to make this a well rounded package of Muricans turning something completely unrelated into their fakn life or death debate over guns.

To be fair, this is not really a derail. The thread was started by someone who is extremely pro-gun, and probably for the purpose of supporting his side of that debate. Because whenever there's a mass shooting, the anti-gun crowd says "You never see this kind of thing with knives" -- and guess what -- now you do see exactly that. I think this is very relevant to the whole gun/anti-gun debate, and that's the reason why the thread exists.

There is nothing in the OP that suggest that this was his intention, and even if it was , just replace the " another thread " with "another world event" in my post and it still is the same.
The fact that there is always so many people ready to take the bait and jump on it is the problem.
If we had the president of the NRA and the Michael fakn Moore here they would be sick and tired from all the debating on the subject by now.

And it's not like any new arguments are being brought to the table, it's the same people repeating themselves over and over and over again.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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