Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
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24-08-2014, 04:51 AM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 01:32 AM)Shamma Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 01:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, Scamma.

It is not usual to permit links to stuff on one's first post but given that this will likely be your only post (unless you come back next year to see how many of us have magically converted) and the link in question will provide some laughs, we'll make an exception this time.

Enjoy your time here.

Rolleyes

What if I'm trying to convert you?! Did I kill anyone?! Why do you hate this so much..

a person who shares his belief and knowledge .. with you..!!

Why are you so insecure !! You have your own mind .." me posting a link to a lecture" is not like beating you to death in order to be a muslim!?! Big Grin


You can always think and refuse Sleepy

I read many atheist posts and still a muslim Sleepy .. I don't like to shut my minds just because I'm afraid that someone would convert me Bowing


Always keep my mind open to new ideas and knowledge even if it was coming from the enemy !!

Thanks for welcoming me Big Grin


Well, in that case, we look forward to it.

It'll make a change from the christians trying their worst.

Big Grin

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24-08-2014, 04:59 AM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2014 03:51 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(23-08-2014 01:46 AM)pablo Wrote:  Unless it's a great movie, I'm not watching over two and a half hours of anything from a drive by.

Don't bother. Dude was never an "atheist". (He claims to be, but never explains that). He always was, and remains an idiot. His PhD is in math. So he's not an expert in History, Religion, the Ancient Near East, or any relevant subject. Here's a shorter version. He never gets around to explaining why he actually believes in a god. He exchanged one old cult about which he knew nothing, and was was not active in, for another. The quality of the above video is pathetic. He mumbles throughout it. Here's a shorter version. It's no better. Dude has nothing to offer. He reads the Quran, and the lights go on, "cuz he liked it". Really ? Really ? That's no "journey". It's a jump to oblivion. There is no reasoned journey here. No pre-established criteria. It's bunk. He may be a nice guy, and a good math teacher, but this is nothing but Presuppositionist nonsense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H_C0BMyGCA

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-08-2014, 05:19 AM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 04:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 03:57 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  Welp. I'm convinced. Shamma has shown me the way!

I wanna get fucked by Shamma so badly because I know they are the best genetic stock right now.

Don't forget your care package!

[Image: ky-intense.jpg]

(I am now officially declaring myself to be DemonicLemon's platonic wingmate. Tongue )

Just supply me the toys and the lube, cuz the wetter the sex with theists, the better Drooling

“You see… sometimes life gives you lemons. And when that happens… you need to find some spell that makes lemons explode, because lemons are terrible. I only ate them once and I can say with certainty they are the worst fruit. If life gave me lemons, I would view it as nothing short of a declaration of war."
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24-08-2014, 05:21 AM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 05:19 AM)DemonicLemon Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 04:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Don't forget your care package!

[Image: ky-intense.jpg]

(I am now officially declaring myself to be DemonicLemon's platonic wingmate. Tongue )

Just supply me the toys and the lube, cuz the wetter the sex with theists, the better Drooling

[Image: stock-photo-young-woman-spraying-water-i...299330.jpg]

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24-08-2014, 07:18 AM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 01:32 AM)Shamma Wrote:  I read many atheist posts and still a muslim Sleepy .. I don't like to shut my minds just because I'm afraid that someone would convert me Bowing

Always keep my mind open to new ideas and knowledge even if it was coming from the enemy !!

Thanks for welcoming me Big Grin

Pro tip: No one here is the least bit worried that you would convert them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-08-2014, 09:16 AM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2014 04:38 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(23-08-2014 01:15 AM)Shamma Wrote:  Hello

It's Shamma Cool

A great man .. great thinking !



Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGm5I6Ccz8

Enjoy Heart

Welcome Shamma!

May I invite you to a discussion about why you have faith in a [edited. HARAM!] "prophet" and why you think belief in him is valid? Do you think it is because you are just not educated or moral enough to realize that the islam faith is founded on violence and pedophilia, or is there other contributing factors to why you choose to believe such delusion? Are you Sunni or Shia?

For those of you out there that aren't as familiar with this particular version of delusion as I may be, let me expound:

The division between Shia and Sunni dates back to the death of the Prophet Muhammad, and the question of who was to take over the leadership of the Muslim nation. Sunni Muslims agree with the position taken by many of the Prophet's companions, that the new leader should be elected from among those capable of the job. This is what was done, and the Prophet Muhammad's close friend and advisor, Abu Bakr, became the first Caliph of the Islamic nation. The word "Sunni" in Arabic comes from a word meaning "one who follows the traditions of the Prophet."

On the other hand, some Muslims share the belief that leadership should have stayed within the Prophet's own family, among those specifically appointed by him, or among Imams appointed by God Himself.

The Shia Muslims believe that following the Prophet Muhammad's death, leadership should have passed directly to his cousin/son-in-law, Ali bin Abu Talib. Throughout history, Shia Muslims have not recognized the authority of elected Muslim leaders, choosing instead to follow a line of Imams which they believe have been appointed by the Prophet Muhammad or God Himself. The word "Shia" in Arabic means a group or supportive party of people. The commonly-known term is shortened from the historical "Shia-t-Ali," or "the Party of Ali." They are also known as followers of "Ahl-al-Bayt" or "People of the Household" (of the Prophet).

From this initial question of political leadership, some aspects of spiritual life have been affected and now differ between the two groups of Muslims.
It is important to remember that despite these differences in opinion and practice, Shia and Sunni Muslims share the main articles of Islamic belief and are considered by most to be brethren in faith. In fact, most Muslims do not distinguish themselves by claiming membership in any particular group, but prefer to call themselves simply, "Muslims."

Shia Muslims believe that the Imam is sinless by nature, and that his authority is infallible as it comes directly from God. Therefore, Shia Muslims often venerate the Imams as saints and perform pilgrimages to their tombs and shrines in the hopes of divine intercession.

Sunni Muslims counter that there is no basis in Islam for a hereditary privileged class of spiritual leaders, and certainly no basis for the veneration or intercession of saints. Sunni Muslims contend that leadership of the community is not a birthright, but a trust that is earned and which may be given or taken away by the people themselves.

Shia Muslims also feel animosity towards some of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad, based on their positions and actions during the early years of discord about leadership in the community. Many of these companions (Abu Bakr, Umar ibn Al Khattab, Aisha, etc.) have narrated traditions about the Prophet's life and spiritual practice. Shia Muslims reject these traditions (hadith) and do not base any of their religious practices on the testimony of these individuals. This naturally gives rise to some differences in religious practice between the two groups. These differences touch all detailed aspects of religious life: prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, etc.

Speaking of the "Imam are sinless by nature delusion", lets look at some of the great things they have said recently in regards to having sex with an infant/child:

Thanks to Muhammad's extremely poor judgment (at best) and explicit approval of [edited. HARAM!] became deeply ingrained in the Islamic tradition. For many centuries, Muslim armies would purge Christian and Hindu peasant villages of their menfolk and send the women and children to harems and the thriving [edited. HARAM!] markets deep in the Islamic world.

When it comes to child marriage, contemporary clerics warn fellow Muslims against succumbing to the disapproval of the Christian West: "It behooves those who call for setting a minimum age for marriage to fear Allah and not contradict his Sharia, or try to legislate things Allah did not permit. For laws are Allah’s province; and legislation is his exclusive right, to be shared by none other. And among these are the rules governing marriage.”

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who married a 12-year-old girl, even gave his consent to using [edited. HARAM!] for [edited. HARAM!] pleasure (although warning against [edited. HARAM!] until the baby is a few years older).

Some clerics show relative mercy on underage girls by advocating a process known as "thighing" (also known as child molestation in the West). According to a recent fatwa (number 23672), an imam answers this question: "My parents married me to a young girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. How can I enjoy her sexually?" by telling the 'man' that he may "hug her, kiss her, and ejaculate between her legs."

A prominent member of Saudi Arabia's highest religious council said in 2012 that girls can be married "even if they are in the cradle," then went on to explain that intercourse may occur whenever "they are capable of being placed beneath and bearing the weight of the man."

stop the bacha bazi tradition, you know the hiring and [edited. HARAM!] of little [edited. HARAM!] ...or the marrying of 9 yo girls, [edited. HARAM!] them the night of the wedding and then when the [edited. HARAM!] dies from bleeding, not even holding the man accountable, the mutilation of girls genitals so that she doesn't feel pleasure, the stoning of women accused of adultery, the honor killing of daughters who had the audacity to allow themselves to be raped...etc etc you know, all those great islam traditions.

by the way it is 2014, time to join the rest of the civilized world in living within socially acceptable standards like not raping children, etc...

So my question is Shamma, why does Islam support child rape and why do you purport that this is the correct way in which we should live our lives? Don't make me dismantle the qu'ran for you as well.

But anyway, welcome, enjoy your stay...don't be scared, engage the hard questions...here you can't hide behind women and children, here we will question your faith, its basis and validity...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-08-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 04:33 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 01:39 AM)Shamma Wrote:  Did you even look at it?! Sleepy

Is that logic and freeing your mind .. being smart?!

At least look at the video before making any assumptions.. That's what educated people do.

The video is about the story of dr. Jeffery Lang who is a mathematics professor .. He was an atheist and became a muslim just by reading the Quran.. He has some great thoughts !!

I have read the Quran & just to check have a father who understands fluent arabic & had to learn Quran in school who helped read it in its own language - and now an even more convinced atheist - So ?

What is required is understanding critical thinking skills - I am happy to go through all the QUran's alleged miracles and show the fallacies.
If your open minded and want to engage in a critical discussion of the Quran I'm happy to help.

Your video doesnt really prove much - yes some intelligent people can convert & not every convert is some ignorant fool - we know this.

I personally know a professor of Philosophy from John Hopkins university (specializing in mathematics) who is an ultra orthodox Jew & leading educator in a religious seminary - he is very intelligent and I have debated him on numerous occasions. He also "converted" from being secular to orthodox.
Infact this is his website:
http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/
I have had debates with him on complex theological areas not necessarily unique to Judaism but shared with Islamic theology.
...again the fact he is a professor of philosophy, well educated & understands Godel's incompleteness theorem doesnt mean that somehow just telling his story is going to convince someone to be an orthodox Jew (or Muslim in your case)

I could tell you to "go and listen to 100hours of his lectures" and you might convert. This is true because I DID THIS some 15 years ago and had by own secular to orthodox conversion to Judaism. Considering about 50% of the orthodox material is compatible with Islamic theology I am sure there are similar Islamic versions of some intelligent philosophers or mathematicians who converted from a secular life such as in your video. (many of the central philosophical fundamentals in Islam are similar if not identical to Judaism - not surprising since Mohammed plagiarized, copied or just thought they were good ideas for his new religion)

....and I'll be honest, I was actually happy & fulfilled as an orthodox Jew for 10yrs or so compared to some of the problems that exist within secular life such as addictions to sex, alcohol, drugs and often meaningless drifting & lack of purpose in life. - For some people I still think religion (in some forms of "Modern orthodox or reformed Judaism" or "reformed liberal CHristianity" ) is actually beneficial for some of its disciplines if they do not have a reasonable/rational secular philosophy to guide them.

However - I de-converted.
There are plenty of professors of philosophy or Mathematics who are highly intelligent and have converted/De-converted to being atheists (I being one of them- although not a professor of mathematics but still have degrees in sciences & deep interest in philosophy)

On a side point: I said I thought that for some people religion is beneficial and think this is a good guide for them if they dont have a rational/reasonable secular philosophy. Eg such as reformed/modern orthodox Judaism or liberal Christianity might be good for some people for living a fulfilled life.

One view is that these modern versions, and there are some Islamic versions too have incorporated secular philosophies with a dose of skepticism making them deviate from their original religious system/scripture/literalism. I don't mind when this occurs and it is clear that the modern versions for example disregard scriptural passages endorsing slavery. - However the religious orthodox traditionalists with scream heresy in such cases and this is a SEVERE problem in Islam and the Salafi traditions.

It is EXTREMELY dangerous to allow "Moderate Islam" to grow and have a strong political force even if democratic because with it there is automatic endorsement/legitimacy for the fundamentalists such as the salafi's, ISIS, AL-Queda's, Hamas, Islamic Jihads,BukuHarams etc.You cannot have "Just moderates" in Islam because on the "conservative right" of the political landscape the more moderates you have the more fundamentalists are justified - and the fundamentalists can easily convert moderates who will be told their Islam is diluted & heretical "mixed" with western values. Read Temptations of Power: Islamists & Illiberal Democracy in a New Middle East Written by: Shadi Hamid for more insights.

I actually agree with this assessment because I am aware how the reformed religious are made to feel guilty as if they are all deviants and heretical because "outside philosophies" have been mixed with the orthodox scripture.

In Islam this is definitely prevalent since Al_Ghazali[Abū Ḥāmid Muḥammad ibn Muḥammad al-Ghazālī] c. 1058–1111 shut down philosophical exploration of Islam and effectively turned Islam into a much more literalistic system - and anyone who studies the philosophies is essentially a heretic - He went to war with Avicenna & Al-Farabi (amongst others who learned Aristotle, Plato & "the philosophies") and whilst he did not physically kill them he did intellectual Jihad. Since then the Islamic "Golden Era" collapsed and the Islamic world become Primitive !!!
Those "muslims" (or arabs,persians,armenians etc) who did study the Greek Philosophies helped translate them and bring them to the west and set off the enlightenment and destruction of Christendom. However Al-Ghazali's legacy never brought the enlightenment to the Islamic world - leaving it in the dark ages it is in today.

Bowing

So glad you are here Yes

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-08-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
Note from Mod...

Sorry to have 'pinked' your post. I know your position is opposition to the crime but the rule is in place to shield those who have been / are victims of this heinous practice.

Meanwhile... thanks for the info.

I have learned that the Sunnis are the Roundheads and the Shias are the Cavaliers.

I was always on the side of the parliamentarians but the king's men definitely had more style.

Ironically, both teams also believed in the wrong god.

Laugh out load

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24-08-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 04:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Note from Mod...

Sorry to have 'pinked' your post. I know your position is opposition to the crime but the rule is in place to shield those who have been / are victims of this heinous practice.

Meanwhile... thanks for the info.

I have learned that the Sunnis are the Roundheads and the Shias are the Cavaliers.

I was always on the side of the parliamentarians but the king's men definitely had more style.

Ironically, both teams also believed in the wrong god.

Laugh out load

-_-

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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24-08-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: Jeffrey Lang - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam
(24-08-2014 04:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Note from Mod...

Sorry to have 'pinked' your post. I know your position is opposition to the crime but the rule is in place to shield those who have been / are victims of this heinous practice.

Meanwhile... thanks for the info.

I have learned that the Sunnis are the Roundheads and the Shias are the Cavaliers.

I was always on the side of the parliamentarians but the king's men definitely had more style.

Ironically, both teams also believed in the wrong god.

Laugh out load

Actually it is permitted to call out such practices (this was specifically brought up) but not to defend them.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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