Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
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13-09-2013, 04:15 PM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2013 05:33 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(13-09-2013 02:04 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 01:15 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  And this is why you are totally and utterly full of shit. Corporal punishment is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Taking into consideration that humans are flawed (as are our judicial systems), that guarantees that some innocent people will be killed for a crime they did not commit.

Moral accountability is to be held accountable for your actions. You think you have it, because you think you submit yourself to your unverifiable sky daddy. But Christianity can be, has been, and will continue to be used as a cosmic loophole to get out of being held accountable to other people, you know, who actually fucking exist. Holding yourself accountable to something as unverifiable and as open to interpretation as the Christian conception(s) of god is about as meaningful as holding yourself accountable to the psychic instruction of your pet tabby cat...

I think you give more weight to Christianity than I! A prisoner in jail for murder who trusts Christ experiences emotional freedom, not physical freedom. I'm accountable to other people on Earth for moral crimes, same as you.

The problem is that not only do you submit yourself to accountability to an unverifiable god, you also claim they everyone else will also be held accountable to that god. Unfortunately there is a loophole, and that is belief in Jesus, which absolves you of the accountability to the cosmic overlord. But as for everyone else who hasn't bowed the knee or accepted Jesus as their own personal scapegoat? Well, fuck them!


Quote:A prisoner in jail for murder who trusts Christ experiences emotional freedom, not physical freedom.

This is still part of the core problem of your whole theology. Said hypothetical criminal can absolve themselves of guilt and responsibility of their actions in this world by asking for forgiveness from a third party, a forgiveness that is (as far as anyone can tell) never withheld. So they never have to make restitution, they don't have to take responsibility for changing their behavior or apologizing to the people they wronged. Jesus the cosmic scapegoat so easily eliminates any guilt, remorse, and accountability to other humans. They may be in jail or not, that is not a gauge of how they judge their accountability to other people. Why worry about being accountable to other if you can always just ask Jesus to forgive you, and Jesus always does, and all you need for an eternity in heaven is Jesus's forgiveness? It's so very easy to destroy your moral compass with that reasoning, and history is filled with examples of people doing just that.


The core doctrine of Christianity, that of vicarious redemption, is immoral at it's core.

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16-09-2013, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2013 01:37 PM by PleaseJesus.)
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
Quote:Where is your Christian forgiveness now? What about rehabilitation - are there ex-criminals who deserve a second chance at life?

Raptor, in your worldview, does forgiveness abrogate the need for punishment? Is it appropriate to both forgive a rapist, for example, and to pursue a prison sentence for them?

And as an aside, thanks for mentioning Europe and Belarus. Was your intent to demonstrate your point via an ad populum argument?
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16-09-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(13-09-2013 04:15 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(13-09-2013 02:04 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I think you give more weight to Christianity than I! A prisoner in jail for murder who trusts Christ experiences emotional freedom, not physical freedom. I'm accountable to other people on Earth for moral crimes, same as you.

The problem is that not only do you submit yourself to accountability to an unverifiable god, you also claim they everyone else will also be held accountable to that god. Unfortunately there is a loophole, and that is belief in Jesus, which absolves you of the accountability to the cosmic overlord. But as for everyone else who hasn't bowed the knee or accepted Jesus as their own personal scapegoat? Well, fuck them!


Quote:A prisoner in jail for murder who trusts Christ experiences emotional freedom, not physical freedom.

This is still part of the core problem of your whole theology. Said hypothetical criminal can absolve themselves of guilt and responsibility of their actions in this world by asking for forgiveness from a third party, a forgiveness that is (as far as anyone can tell) never withheld. So they never have to make restitution, they don't have to take responsibility for changing their behavior or apologizing to the people they wronged. Jesus the cosmic scapegoat so easily eliminates any guilt, remorse, and accountability to other humans. They may be in jail or not, that is not a gauge of how they judge their accountability to other people. Why worry about being accountable to other if you can always just ask Jesus to forgive you, and Jesus always does, and all you need for an eternity in heaven is Jesus's forgiveness? It's so very easy to destroy your moral compass with that reasoning, and history is filled with examples of people doing just that.


The core doctrine of Christianity, that of vicarious redemption, is immoral at it's core.

I don't understand. Vicarious redemption applies to the afterlife only. A rapist does not sit in jail, become born again, and then the prison doors melt and they are released without parole.

Vicarious redemption applies to the afterlife. If you think it's immoral, you are saying that Hell and not Heaven is the proper abode of those who commit moral crimes... interesting...
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16-09-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
PLEASEYJEBO -

Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs

ARE YOU ILLITERATE?

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16-09-2013, 01:57 PM
 
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(16-09-2013 01:32 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Raptor, in your worldview, does forgiveness abrogate the need for punishment? Is it appropriate to both forgive a rapist, for example, and to pursue a prison sentence for them?

You seem to be attacking a straw-man. I never denied that crime needs to be punished. I only claimed that death is an inappropriate punishment. I asked, "are there ex-criminals who deserve a second chance at life?" Therefore, your objection is invalid.

(16-09-2013 01:32 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And as an aside, thanks for mentioning Europe and Belarus. Was your intent to demonstrate your point via an ad populum argument?

Sometimes it's good to see how the rest of the world does something. As food for thought.
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16-09-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(16-09-2013 01:57 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:  
(16-09-2013 01:32 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Raptor, in your worldview, does forgiveness abrogate the need for punishment? Is it appropriate to both forgive a rapist, for example, and to pursue a prison sentence for them?

You seem to be attacking a straw-man. I never denied that crime needs to be punished. I only claimed that death is an inappropriate punishment. I asked, "are there ex-criminals who deserve a second chance at life?" Therefore, your objection is invalid.

(16-09-2013 01:32 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And as an aside, thanks for mentioning Europe and Belarus. Was your intent to demonstrate your point via an ad populum argument?

Sometimes it's good to see how the rest of the world does something. As food for thought.

I see. For what crime(s) do you think death is an appropriate punishment? Surely it's in our zeitgeist if not our law codes. Just watch a movie and see what happens to the bad guy every time. Seriously, for what crime do you think death is justifiable punishment?
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16-09-2013, 02:41 PM
 
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(16-09-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I see. For what crime(s) do you think death is an appropriate punishment? Surely it's in our zeitgeist if not our law codes. Just watch a movie and see what happens to the bad guy every time. Seriously, for what crime do you think death is justifiable punishment?

For none.
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16-09-2013, 09:42 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses have an issue with Smurfs
(16-09-2013 01:35 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I don't understand.


Yes, every time you post here you make that abundantly clear... Drinking Beverage

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