Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
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21-10-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
Not the first time to tell it I know:
Shortly after the gate was up, we were out working in the yard about 120' away. These fundies stopped and got out of the car, stepped up to the gate and waved. I waved back, and continued with my yard work. Crestfallen, they left a pamphlet under a rock and got back in the car. I put my arm around my wife, and said " god bless our gate".
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21-10-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
So wait, "there is no god, please fuck off' and slamming the door isn't the proper response?

darn, may need to rethink this.
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21-10-2016, 12:51 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
Another option would be I don't have proof, but I choose to have faith that there is no God.

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21-10-2016, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2016 02:49 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 10:17 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 02:27 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  ............
They got in their car and drove away. I'm betting they'll be back again though. I hope they bring their A-team next time.

I turned to go in the house and my wife and two teenage kids were huddled around the window of the front door, peeking out. I had to laugh.

Where their specialty "Jehovah's Witnesses-es" came in? Or did you simply guessed? Guessed without any evidence??? Isn't it the hypocrisy, dear "evidence-lover"?

Since they called their church the KINGDOM HALL, it was not a tough job of reasoning.

By the way, did you know that their church is the true church and yours is the false church. It said so in their pamphlet. There's your evidence, right there. You've been sold a bill of goods. You need to convert.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-10-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 10:29 AM)cactus Wrote:  
Quote:It really doesn't matter because my rejection of theism is based on something much more fundamental than all that. I reject theism because it violate the primacy of existence principle. It does this by affirming the primacy of consciousness. Since it does this, it can not be true.
Sorry, could you explain this in layman's terms for me?

A great analogy that I've seen is that theism assumes a cartoon view of reality. Theism assumes that everything was created by a supreme consciousness in the same way that a cartoon is created by a master cartoonist. The master cartoonist controls all the action and characters in the cartoon just like the Christian God or the Jewish God or the Muslim God is said to control whatever comes to pass in reality. So reality is a cartoon and God is the master cartoonist and that can only lead to a subjective universe. Since the concept of truth rests exclusively on an objective view of the universe, theism is incompatible with truth.

Here's where that article can be found. I think it's a valid analogy.

http://bahnsenburner.blogspot.com/2005/0...heism.html

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-10-2016, 04:01 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 10:29 AM)cactus Wrote:  
Quote:It really doesn't matter because my rejection of theism is based on something much more fundamental than all that. I reject theism because it violate the primacy of existence principle. It does this by affirming the primacy of consciousness. Since it does this, it can not be true.
Sorry, could you explain this in layman's terms for me?

Hi again cactus,

Here's a link to the explanation and validation of the primacy of existence by Anton Thorn, since I am pressed for time. It may be a new idea for you but it's easily understood, though it is way over theBorg's head.

http://www.oocities.org/athens/sparta/10...rimacy.htm

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-10-2016, 04:03 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 10:17 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 02:27 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  ............
They got in their car and drove away. I'm betting they'll be back again though. I hope they bring their A-team next time.

I turned to go in the house and my wife and two teenage kids were huddled around the window of the front door, peeking out. I had to laugh.

Where their specialty "Jehovah's Witnesses-es" came in? Or did you simply guessed? Guessed without any evidence??? Isn't it the hypocrisy, dear "evidence-lover"?

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Did you actually read the post?
If you did, you clearly did not understand it. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-10-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
Borg,

I forgot to thank you for calling me "evidence lover". Even though you didn't mean it in a complimentary way I'll take it as a compliment.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-10-2016, 08:08 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 10:44 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I'm polite, but I don't pull any punches when people make the mistake of engaging me in the right/wrong good/evil conversation. I like to think my fucked up responses are talked about on occasion between JWs trading stories of their experiences.

More and more I'm starting to see them as victims of mind control, at least the ones who go door to door. The leaders I see as the truly evil ones. I mentioned in another thread that I went to one of their services when I was in my 20's. It was truly a frightening experience. What I witnessed was brainwashed people sitting in a room trying to please the elders. The elders were very stern and scary. They looked like their faces would crack apart if they smiled and there were no smiles in the congregation either. The atmosphere was one of oppression and pure authoritarianism. I could imagine that in the next room there was a torture chamber and a rack, maybe some meat hooks and scyths hanging. I couldn't wait to get out of there.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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26-10-2016, 11:57 PM
RE: Jehovah's Witnesses vs. Objectivism
(21-10-2016 08:08 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  More and more I'm starting to see them as victims of mind control, at least the ones who go door to door. The leaders I see as the truly evil ones.

Spot on, TS!

I'm an xJW, left around 15 years ago. Their (highly sophisticated) use of mind control is one of the clear signs they're a cult. And a particularly nasty little one, at that.

And yes, the ordinary JWs really are victims, or as I call them, the deceived. The leaders are the deceivers, and yes, they really are evil.

There's a story this week from Utah of a young mother dying because she refused a blood transfusion. The leaders know their teaching is wrong - both morally and scripturally - but are too proud and stubborn to admit they've been mistaken all these years. (After all, they claim they're god's sole representatives on earth!)

Plus, they're terrified of even more lawsuits from people whose relatives died for nothing after refusing a blood transfusion.* (There's already a long line of claims for child abuse working their way through the system.)

--

* It didn't help that the leadership - the 'Governing Body' - lied to ordinary JWs about the risks of transfusions. They grossly exaggerated the dangers of accepting a blood transfusion and callously misrepresented the effectiveness of the bloodless alternatives they recommended. If you've been in a motor accident and are losing a lot of blood, there is NO alternative.
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